NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

If SP really has been sharing racist jokes, then I am deeply disappointed and deplore it. But even a racist would have the right to single sex spaces.

She posted on X what was essentially a press release calling SP a hero, and some papers put it on their front page.

The technicalities don’t matter to those just taking in headlines and broad brush.

“Woman hailed as women’s rights hero by JKR said all Pakis should go home” isn’t great, is it?

Yes, like me Marie. And, when I can/when it is safe to do so, I do challenge these kind of ‘jokes’. My point being, that the whole group of Sandie’s ‘friends’ were in that chat group, regularly went on holiday with her, and no one challenged her. So this displays the culture of that particular group.

Panel are back

Yet she had zero complaints in her 30 year career

JR continuing with LN

Quite so.

And given the lack of complaints it seems that she was capable of not bringing her whole self to work and being professional to her patients.

I too am baffled by how and why these people stayed in the group and went on holiday with her if they were so disgusted. I wouldn't have done.

Nobody should have to 'pretend' to be anything other than what they are, and nobody, no exceptions, no excuses, should be racist, classist, homophobic, sexist etc etc.

Exactly this. It'll be a complete gift to the TRAs, which is really fucking annoying, but she doesn't have to be a saint - she has to be female.

of course, i never noticed that!! Women wear knickers, blokes wear underpants. So therefore Dr U was wearing underpants. Ergo, she knows that he is a bloke.

they cannot say she is unable to care for her patients equally, or hasn’t ever. They can say it’s reasonable to suspect that she might not, and it would damage public confidence in the profession as a whole and in the ability and willingness of the NMC to take action to prevent unlawful discrimination if they allow her registration to continue.

I don’t like making that argument.

I wonder was this the whole part of people speaking against Sandy?

I work in a mainly female environment,theres lots of gossip and one man (woman) up man ship. I don’t do that. The days in the office I don’t always go for lunch. I have heard back 3rd hand that I’m a snob or think I’m better. I don’t, I just want to do my job & go home

i wonder if Sandy was similar?

Really is sad times if SP has been sharing racist jokes, but even sadder times that her colleagues and workplace have not actually investigated these.

If you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

Leaving aside the semantics of pants/knickers - she said 'he' and 'his' which is more of a clincher!

Onto messages about Dr Upton it seems.

I always look at it like you might be ok with making those jokes and thats fine i wont make jokes like that because it does cross a line i am not comfortable with i don’t judge them as a person based on what humour they find amusing everyone has a different sense of humour and a difference at what they take offence to but this should not be the basis for a judgment on her whole personality imo the point is she felt comfortable enough to make those jokes around these people which suggests a shared sense of humour or a cowardice that stopped them from saying please dont make jokes like that i find them offensive!

But I don't think it holds any water.

Some third hand tittle tattle compared to years of unblemished service?

That's more about being on one's best behaviour......and would also make some people shy about stating that DU is in fact a big, entitled man. Being kind, politically correct and so on.

Because everyone knows he’s a man.

‘Really pissed off with Peggie’ Why? Did you want her to be a perfect example of a human being with a pure heart in all matters? You don’t even know if this is true, yet you’re pissed off with her?

This tribunal is to decide whether SP has been denied her fundamental and legal rights to SSS, it isn’t a purity test, it doesn’t matter what her views are on anything else as that is all irrelevant. People we don’t like, don’t approve of or even people we loathe are still entitled to the same rights as everyone else. The judgement here is about rights not personality.

Funny how all these private texts conversations have been provided.

I'd love to see Upton's private messages but that ain't never going to happen.

There was a WhatsApp group of police officers a while back and as far as I remember those in the group were as culpable as the individuals who made offensive comments.

I think JR is setting this up as Sandie being such a bigot she was out to get BU, by any means possible, so Sandie set up the cr incident deliberately.

Or something.

Look! A Squirrel 🐿️!

JR reading out some of the texts

So others in the group chat were making fun of DU as well.