NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

LN She wldnt be getting changed as still on duty
NC U cldnt remmber Dus state of undress. U never saw DU changing his trousers
LN Never seen naked. Always seen in her bra. She was v modest. Almost shy. She turned her back. He never took his underwear off. Have never seen anyondo that in 41 yrs
NC But a woman might do There's toilets
NC It wld be upsetting and shocking if DU took his underpants off?
LN Cant answer as not come across that
NC Re describing as weido and freak. Who said this
LN I wasnt expecting to be here so havent taken note of
times and where
NC U dont recall who and when u were told various things. Is it same re story of calling DU it?
LN It was Jackie James who told me that. I cant recall exactly but prob a couple of months ago.
J Be quiet in court - ppl can be removed
NC [pause]

2nd misgendering!

from herald
1:50pm
Asked about the 'derogatory' remarks about Dr Upton, Ms Cunningham asks whether it is the case that "somebody, sometime called Dr Upton a weirdo and freak but you don't know who said that or when".
Correct, Ms Wishart said.
She said she does remember who told her that Ms Peggie described Dr Upton as 'it'. A nurse named Jacqui James.
1:48pm
Ms Wishart said she has never seen Dr Upton "in a state of nakedness, or even in her pants". But says she has seen Dr Upton in a bra.
She says no one looks at each other when they are getting changed.
"Dr Upton was always very discreet, very modest and almost shy," she said.
Would it be "shocking and upsetting" if Dr Upton did take their underwear off?
Ms Wishart said Dr Upton never did.
Ms Cunningham asks whether this would be more shocking than a woman acting this way.
She says she cannot answer this as it has never occurred.
1:44pm
When she returned to work after Christmas, there was talk in the department of an incident between Dr Upton and Sandie Peggie, Ms Wishart said.
Ms Cunningham said Ms Wishart cannot remember exactly when she went to the changing room.
Ms Wishart said that it is because her shift times are different each night. Sometimes she can finish at midnight, others at 12.30am and others around 1am.
She also cannot remember what Dr Upton was wearing.
Ms Cunningham said: "After all this time you can't remember very much at all can you?"
"There's no reason to think you'd be confident in your recollection of where Sandie Peggie was standing?"
The witness Dr Upton always seemed to be at the lockers while Ms Peggie used to get changed behind a closed toilet door, even before Dr Upton joined NHS Fife.
1:38pm
Ms Wishart said she did not witness the Christmas Eve incident.
Ms Cunningham said: "As far as you were concerned, nothing remotely memorable happened?"
She replies that this is correct.

From TT

LN It's not something u remmeber. I was just saying pleasantries and then left.
NC Not a criticism but not much u remember
LN I dont remember.
NC Can u remeber where SP standing
LN For some reason SP got changed behind a closed toilet door even before DU started. DU usually changes at the same spot. I'm not mistaken about where he was. Her locker was always there
NC what about going to toilet
(LN) I dont recall
NC Cld also have arrived later than u?
LN Possibly, yes
NC You said re state of DU dress in. U said u cldnt remember but then corrected yrself to say SP in her uniform
LN She wldnt be getting changed as still on duty
NC U cldnt remmber Dus state of undress. U never saw DU changing his trousers
LN Never seen naked. Always seen in her bra. She was v modest. Almost shy. She turned her back. He never took his underwear off. Have never seen anyone do that in 41 yrs
NC But a woman might do There's toilets
NC It wld be upsetting and shocking if DU took his underpants off?
LN Cant answer as not come across that
NC Re describing as weido and freak. Who said this
LN I wasnt expecting to be here so havent taken note of times and where
NC U dont recall who and when u were told various things. Is it same re story of calling DU it?
LN It was Jackie James who told me that. I cant recall exactly but prob a couple of months ago.

J Be quiet in court - ppl can be removed

NC [pause]

Yes. FW is still under cross exam

FW was seen speaking to LN during the lunchbreak, which FW says was asking what LN wanted for lunch so that FW could pass the message on by phone.

There was quite a bit of questioning about LN at that point, as that obviously could be said to compromise FW's credibility, and LN's subsequent testimony.

She's a right one; willing to drop 'friends' into the shit.

Yes.

Oooh, NC saying the bacon comment came from a bloke.

NC saying it was someone else who said Bacon comment, a paramedic.

God, this woman is awful. I'd hate to work with her.

Oh dear, this witness doesn’t appear to know her ‘he’s’ from her ‘she’s’ does she?

Sad times.

Why should we take this as true from a last-minute account of hearsay that wasn't brought forward earlier, from a team that has beclowned itself like Coco?

If she made racist comments, why did no one ever report them?

Why is her record totally unblemished?

Not sure why NC asking whether DU took off his underpants. It doesn't matter whether naked or fully clothed. He's a man who therefore shouldn't be in female-only changing rooms.

NC The final point - yr suggestion re the mosque being built. The C said something about posting bacon
Correct
NC Building work started in 2012
I dont know
NC Nearing construction in 2020. It's true it's John Harkey a paramedic who said that?
LN Absolutely not, he wasnt there

Thank goodness you can copy and paste. You lot filled up the last thread as I was typing!
They've dredged a whole load of mud up from the Tay and are chucking it in Sandie's direction, hoping something will stick. So much of this is tittle tattle, and not related to what's actually being argued here. Going down this line of questioning is adding to the issues around if Sandie does want to return to work. They don't want her back and are making it as impossible as they can do so she won't. Constructive dismissal springs to mind. Wonder if Naomi agrees.
@BezMills I'm glad I am working at home. Thank you for providing so many guffaw moments! A true public service.
Repeated thanks to @nauticant and TT folks for diligence with shining a light on this case.

So SP may well have been repeating something John Harkey had said ( "posting bacon")

Fiona looks like the type to get involved with any ward drama. The way she's arguing with Naomi and basically being told to shut up and let her finish the question loool

Judge looks miserable and I don't blame him. He still puts on his chirpy voice as required though!

That sounds possible.

Witness finished no qs from anyone

LN next, but NC wants a few minutes to call Miss Gribbon

But judge goes for getting next witness

Well, that Fiona is a horrible person. She threw everyone under the bus. I am sure there will be quite a few of her colleagues who are now well pissed off.

LN I remeber it quite clearly as was very offended
NC U remember what JH said. U remember it as offensive from 10 yrs ago from JH but now attribute to SP to make her look bad
LN No. I've only ever heard SP saying it. I didnt know he had said i

NC seems to know that it was said by JH first? not clear from TT

It may be a helpful line of questioning - if it wouldn't be unreasonable to object to a naked person with male genitalia in a female changing room then it can't be a single sex space if Dr Upton is entitled to undress there

That Fiona hates Sandie doesn't she!

They way the Judge looks now, I think "hello darkness my old friend" is playing in his head.