NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

You may have to break the news to her husband gently. BeKind

from herald
4:51pm
Ms Russell interjects to state that Sex Matters is not an objective witness. They will view the tribunal through a campaigning lens, she said.
Ms Cunningham said Ms Russell's team would have given evidence through the lens of being employed by NHS Fife.
Employment Judge Sandy Kemp said we should begin at 9.30am tomorrow.
The cross examination of Dr Currer will conclude at 11.30 with Ms Peggie giving evidence until around 1pm, followed by additional witnesses.

Its the Trans Ally doom loop.

Ultimately you are useful until your usefulness runs out - and which point you become the enemy and on the recieving end yourself.

It repeats over and over again.

Because the purity spiral is impossible to keep up with and adhere to ever increasing demands.

Judge pointing out that NC's 5 minutes was over 20. I think everyone wants this to be over now.

Very much a lurker on these threads but can anyone explain to me FGS why don't they start at 9am like the rest of the working world????

I think we can all agree that today has been fubar.

Fuck sake.

I thought there was a Vic guy who submitted a bunch of pro-trans stuff but no one wanted to question him in court?

seems to be timetabling in the new witnesses]
J on those times which have no slippage, is extremely tight but seems to me the only way it would work
JR I think we need to do this
J Let me talk to my colleagues as I havent discussed it with them
NC It will be hard for the stenographers to finish by 4pm
J They will have 5 min breaks every hr. I note yr cross NC went far over yr prediction. So both of u think v carefully overnight over the Qs u want to ask. So be here ready to go at 9.15

Oi, ref, what about Russell timewasting!

Tangent incoming re your username: I bloody love Slow Horses, I just found out last night that there are books! I needed a ray of sunshine amidst all this, thank you. 😅

TT's afternoon tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1949824576361222573.html

@RabbitFurCoat you must get the books - they’re absolutely brilliant.

She did ask her if this would be against the NMC code and could lead to disciplinary etc. her answer was yes.

They all do. Prepping for the day takes a long time.
very late nights and early starts will have been the norm for all the solicitors and advocates on this.
when do you think those 3000 pages were reviewed?

Fuxache SM. No need to mention hearsay like the mosque "joke". Just talk about not agreeing with the sentiments expressed.

Quite an amateurish statement, for them.

I think making a joke about her own sons dressing up is quite a world apart from making “a joke” about victims in the Pakistan floods.

WOMAN
From Barbie to GI Joe we are “woman”.
From high heels to rigger boots we are “woman”.
From flat chested to buxom we are “woman”.
From mother of six to barren with nil we are “woman”.
From “3 days, very light” to “36 days now, still flooding” we are “woman”.
From homeless with nothing to Millionaire’s Row we are “woman”.
From far left to far right we are “woman”.
From pro-choice to pro-life we are “woman”.
From (pick religion of choice) to no God at all we are “woman”.
From only does cock to only does cunt we are “woman”.
From all walks of life and from all points of view we are “woman”.
From time of conception to moment of death we are “WOMAN”.

Well why don’t you go and tell someone who gives a shit what you think.

To give me a chance to catch up.

J We havent yet decided re the CVP decision and will have a discussion and come back to you in the morning [SESSION ENDS]

Well that's been a day and a half, and everybody must be feeling drained.
Nobody came out of it well.

I can't imagine what SP is going to say about those shared 'jokes', I can't think of any explanation or any justification for anybody to either make them up, or share them.
We'll see...

NC said LN has it out for SP. LN never denied that, merely stating SP’s views made LN dislike her and seek justice.

It’s weird because given their jobs, education, families etc you might think these 2 women were primed to get along.

Even the group chats show that LN has similar views to SP? Not only did LN engage in unprofessional behaviour, she also laughed and encouraged SP’s unprofessional behaviour and neither party reported each other. In fact, LN continued to go on yearly holidays with SP, ending in 2025 when the tribunal commenced.

Personally I think it’s clear that LN feels that having a gay child is a big part of her identity given how many times she mentions it. She probably felt less special that SP has a gay child too. I wonder if that led to some one-sided rivalry on LN’s part.

I think SM would have done better to keep schtum there

More like they're already very confused and unclear on things and drape themselves in a flag of kindness to... I dunno. Use it to call other people out? It reminds me of some of the people I knew when I was younger, so much fuckery I never knew where to start. Retreated backwards through a hedge Homer-style, and kept going, to a different city. I have massive love for my childhood hometown but lord there were some unwieldy characters.

Today was horrible all round. No one came out of it well and really it had zero relevance to the case.

They probably begin much earlier. The hearing starts at that time but there will be a lot of documents to revise and a lot of notes to review at the end of today and there will be lots of admin things the j needs to deal with before hearing starts.

I am fascinated by what Fife said to Sex Matters on Friday.

I think on Friday JR added new pages to the bundle - these were the group chat exerts.

NC & Co went through the whole group chat and picked out relevant sections which is the 24(?) pages added today.

We now have potentially GDPR breaches, NMC breaches, and Fifes conduct policy breaches by up to 7 people in the group chat.