NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

The point is there would be something that would not paint you in a good light for different reasons. Reasons other people might find as offensive.

I have probably shared other material I’ve found funny that is deeply offensive at the same time (not racist humour) and I definitely would not want to be thought of as sharing the same sentiments because I found it funny.

That's what I was trying to say (possibly not clearly enough) too.

JR having a sex matters whinge

I did think they spent so long discussing how to fit the witnesses in, that they could have questioned a witness in that same timeframe and got started on their list!

Eh, hello - haven't you noticed the queue...

JR is so discombobulated from all her self inflicted errors that she’s forgotten MaggieCurrar’s cross. Sad times

Judge is having a think

My legal ken is a bit out of date, but I'd say if you dump 2,600 pages of chat messages as a new disclosure, and whoever gave you the chat has helpfully highlighted four pages that look damning, you can't really complain if opposing counsel has a skim through to see if there are other relevant messages. FAFO isn't a formal legal doctrine but it applies here.

from herald
4:45pm
Sandie Peggie will be recalled tomorrow after Maggie Currer gives evidence.
She will give evidence mid-morning or early afternoon. Two additional witnesses will then give evidence.
Sandra Ross, from the Benidorm group chat is due to give evidence, as is Emma Ward, an administrator of Sex Matters who took a call from someone working at NHS Fife.
Employment Judge Sandy Kemp asks whether this evidence will be based on hearsay.
Yes, Ms Cunningham said.

I LOVE that Gif 😂😂

dont think she realises that she may have just made an enemy of the very people she is trying to sit with!

Forgotten, or is hoping NC has?

Blimey hopefully no one is that desperate to apply. Carol Potter and the mean girls need to get their house in order.

How can they be so stupid to not realise that SP wouldn’t share that chat with her legal team?

NC Sandra Ross (from groupchat) and Emma Moore (admin for Sex Matters who took a call on Fri am from s'one working for NHS Fife)
J So purely hearsay
NC Yes
JR What issue does this go to
NC We've heard a lot of gossip about the C.If u hear from Miss Moore y'll hear the evidence she was too scared to give
J Why 30 mins?

JR SM have a partic perspective who will view these matters thru a campaigning lens. How will they overcome this lens NC All witnesses give evidence thru their own lens

Lindsey defending her comments about her sons and drag race as ‘i was making a joke’ after lambasting SP for sharing distasteful jokes is quite something.

Judge setting out strict times for tomorrow it seems!

I dont think shes getting the sex matters witness in although the judge may let it in cos hes hoping for no appeal?

I'm only up to page 23 of this thread but I think we all can agree the whole hospital and this situation is a total shitshow.

What’s that saying about lack of prior preparation? Fife seem to have been very lazy and relying on everyone having drank from the same bottle of koolaid.

This afternoon also shows why the force teaming of LGB and T was so desirable and the need to capture parents who will do anything for their kids.

NC All witnesses give evidence thru their own lens

Unspoken subtext: As I have just demonstrated with the last witness.

Bet all the chat groups are going to be very different from now on.

I wonder when we will get the actual verdict?

You said in response to my post "Indian friend uses the P word all the time, I met him when we worked together, he is an HR Director. He's really contemptuous about Pakistani employees if I had to talk to him about them. It just makes me think of the history of the two countries to be honest. This creates a terrible atmosphere for white people because we have to accept this hypocrisy silently."

Can you really not see the problem here, in bold? And now you are claiming despite being "contemptuous about them" he somehow overcomes this bias and nevertheless treat them fairly? That's extremely unlikely if he's not even able to talk about them neutrally at work.

Maybe try changing it to "an HR Director. He is really contemptuous about female employees if I had to talk to him about them". Would you say he's entitled to his opinion about women? And that it creates a terrible environment for men?

Again "finding out how Indians and Pakistanis feel about each other" makes a massive sweeping generalisation. I've never heard any Indian use the "P" word. Cultural concerns, tensions around war sure but not personal.

Those of us who understand and have family members who survived and suffered the terrible violence of Partition do not do this. We don't forget where this prejudice has ended in living history.

JR None have a campaigning lens
J We'll have to be v careful re timing. Give me a moment to think about...
J Let me make some notes. I propose we start at 9.30 tmrw. 9.30-11.30 cross of MC [continues listing times] We'll have to build in short breaks. Incl 2-2.15 by CVP.

Yes judge, of course judge, we'll do exactly as you say judge😏

Exactly.

We have people calling us transphobic on here who are later revealed to think exactly as we do, or even worse (some denying that gender identity is different from sex, or insisting that being trans is about changing sex etc etc).