NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

Disagree. Of course its relevant.

NHS Fife have been selective in its handling of Sandie Peggie's case. What on EARTH were they thinking in putting Lindsey up as a witness and turning a blind eye to all the other shite going on.

It ADDS to the idea that Peggie has been harassed by NHS Fife, because they haven't treated her fairly compared to any other members of staff. They've over looked all the other comments on the chat, 'just to get' Sandie.

Thats part of the problem here.

They are throwing shit but the wind is blowing in the wrong direction and is merely blowing back and hitting themselves in the face.

Its not a good look at all.

I think it’s telling that the judge and the tribunal had no further questions for her.

I also thought that JR follow up questions were pointless, as NC painted a picture of LN being biased. So LN’s responses to JR would never be seen as impartial and therefore no weight attributed.

Enjoy your time off 😁

Lindsay thought this was her chance to be an LGBTQ+ Super-ally. She's internalised all the alphabet soup training, what she's read online and probably heard from her sons as well. Being a trans ally is more important than ever after all. She was probably dizzy with excitement when she approached NHSF with her evidence. Poor dab. 🙄

Because JR only read the 4 messages that LN showed her. Unlike NC, JR seems to be flying solo hampered by a bunch of liability respondents and witnesses. Shame JR didnt do due diligence on the full thread… sad times

As a counter, though - I am as near to 100% certain as I can possibly be that I wouldn't be shown racist jokes posted by me and asked to justify them.

Sandie is not the ideal poster child for the SSS argument. Disappointing, but we persevere.

All back

NC talking to judge

Yes, it was grubby. I'm wondering what relevance all of this will have in the grand scheme of things? I'll be interested to hear what Michael Foran says later, as well as all the legal people on X

That’s a pretty dope lunch, though.

Of course. It's sharing patient information outside of necessary work duties. In an online space that isn't protected. Breach of patient confidentiality. Grounds for suspension and investigation. Plus possible referral to the NMC

Is there a legal procs person on here?

The 2,600 pages of Whatsapp sound like new disclosure. If JR/NHS Legal haven't had time to go through it with a fine tooth comb have they now missed their opportunity to bring up evidence from it that hasn't been dealt with in examination?

Unless CE (and possibly anybody else with SP today) has read it all through, I think I wouldn't call Gina in case there is something damning they have missed.

They can claim (justifiably so) that they have run out of time because NHS Fife/Judge didn't want a further delay?

What a day!

Judge losing the will to live, there is no way they getting through 5 witnesses tomorrow.

Discussion over prospective witnesses

I would argue there is no poster child we all say things other people disagree with including LN as just proven but single sex spaces are about keeping women and children safe and as far as im concerned i would stick up for anyone regardless of personality when it comes to this type of safety!

Fuck around, find out...

They shouldn't have spent 2 hours fannying around this morning.

Not when you got NC looking at it!

And just so you all know, I am officially declaring myself as NC’s girlfriend (but she doesn’t know it yet I just need to find an opportune moment to break the news to her as she is very busy ❤️)

I know, it’s not a good look but the key will be the judgement and the ££ awarded.

If it goes to appeal then the focus is on the legal points rather than SPs character.

She doesn't need to make that point to witnesses. There would be no point doing so, particularly not to a witness like this. She can make the point in submissions if she feels it is necessary.

And she confessed to it under oath. It's not an allegation, she confessed to it.

NC The witness is in SE London. She made a dec over the weekend and will struggle to get hear tmrw
J Do u wish to recall the C
NC Yes.

J In which order if we allow
NC Prob the C first J How long cross?
JR 30-45 mins
J Difficult for u to witness [missed]

They didn’t realise how many women understand that feminism and women’s rights apply to all women. Not just nice and ‘kind’ ones plus any man who says he’s a woman.

The thing is it has been put to the judge that an appeal may occur following this tribunal. So the judge is going to want to preempt issues that may occur as they don’t like their decisions being appealed. I think that’s why the judge isn’t interrupting as much as they want to about timings etc, and is allowing more witnesses & SP to be reexamined etc.

Its like declaring you are a trans ally, means you are absolved of all sin and its a cloak that makes it impossible for you to be a bad person because you have signalled your virtue.

Its amazing seeing how blind so many allies are to their own sexism, homophobia, racism and ageism. We see it ALL THE TIME here.

Now I’ve not been following this very closely at all but am I given to understand that a woman said that she didn’t want someone with a cock and balls in the woman’s changing room and now they are saying she’s racist? How is that relevant?