NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

I think we know what Charlotte Elves spent her morning on…

LN She wld have been dismissive, rude and not able to communicate in a reasonable manner. Be nasty to the dr.
JR It was put to u re the difference betwn gay and trans being who they are. Pretending to be something they're not
LN I feel TW dont have a choice They just want to live their life and be their true selves. Have a peaceful life. They shld be respected for that.
JR Going back to the gp chat and mentioning a name. Has Eva Bear mentioned the full name of the pat?
Yes, she asked who it is
JR Re referring to Beth as a....

man? weirdo? 6' hockey player? irritant?interloper?

I'm not sure LN was the sharpest tool to begin with

And Lindsey went on holiday with Sandie?! Multiple times? God. It’s so clear that she hates Sandie and is happy to destroy / end her career and leave her without an income whilst simultaneously trying to demolish Sandie’s family.

I thought this. I was wondering if NC was going to ask LN if she has been subject to investigation/disciplinary action over her messages

When did all this new evidence come to light? It sounded to me as if it might have only been handed in over the weekend (but I'm not listening).

I'm not sure that LN is going to be having such a super holiday after this.

He’s destroyed all of them, to a greater or a lesser extent, he built the bonfire, poured petrol on it, and these handmaidens queued up one after the other to put a match to it.

weirdo
LN Its not approp to do this. Shld be more respectful and show compassion to ppl
J Thanks LM for her evidecne
JThat concludes the r's case
JR Yes
NC Apart from MC tmrw
J We will finish the evidence at 4pm tomorrow. How do we shoehorn everything in?

Another reason why prisons were targeted for TWAW so early on. Not only because it was so easy to punish prisoners for unpalatable views like he's a man but because prisoners are convicted criminals so they're unpalatable women. To "respectable" society anyway.

@Harassedevictee I completely get that she could still win her case but public opinion is crucial to the wider campaign to tip the balance in favour of women's rights.

So tomorrow is MC with NC, then SP's 2 new witnesses?

I don’t think a couple of racist jokes do matter in the context of 7-years/ someone’s life/ however long. I don’t think there is a single poster here right now who could look back on the past 7 years of their lives and assure themselves everything they’ve said is pure.

They’ve been deliberately been showcased as a character sum up - a couple of reposted jokes. The other smears have all been hearsay, with nobody quite sure who they heard it from in first place. It holds very little water to her character as a whole let alone had nothing at all to do with the crux of the case.

Any data breach needs to be reported to the ICO .

Did you know the word 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary, Lindsay? 😛

I feel a bit grubby after listening to all that.

So NC and team must have had to go through the 2800 pages of group chat - wow.

I don’t understand women like this. It’s not enough to ignore, or challenge, or have a debate or disagreement, they also want to destroy them, their family and their livelihood. At the end of the day, it’s not going to make LN feel any better.

And SP back on the stand?

<lurking mode OFF> again to drop this here as it seems apt, again.

“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.
Aldhous Huxley, Crome Yellow 1921

Many thanks for these threads

<lurking mode ON>

And given he's pretty cross with Fife already they'd better do it quickly..........

Surely saying that it’s not possible for a trans person to be a weirdo - that hey are all lovely and “just trying to live their best lives” - is just as transphobic as alleging all trans people are fetishised nut jobs.

Where's Micharl Foran?

Hang on, it's not over till it's over..
Tribunal Tweets@tribunaltweets
3m
NC We may have another short witness. I need to have a think J We'll have a 5 min break. [break

Right, out I'm off out the door. No peeking at the new thread until it's the right time.

from herald (quoting sex matters)

4:39pm
While we wait, we have a statement from Sex Matters, an organisation supporting Ms Peggie, on the evidence we have heard today.
Maya Forstater, chief executive, said that while they do not defend the jokes Ms Peggie made about Pakistan, it does not change the meaning of the case.
Here is the statement in full:
"It takes extraordinary courage for someone to take a case against their employer, particularly knowing that ill-judged private communications between friends might emerge and be used with the intention of smearing their character.
"This case is about what NHS Fife subjected Sandie to, and the board’s expectation that female staff must accept having to undress in front of a man. A victim of sexual harassment at work should not have to be “perfect” to be able to get legal redress.
"Obviously, Sex Matters in no way defends the sentiments regarding the victims of the Pakistan floods, or remarks about a mosque attributed to her by a witness this afternoon.
"The content of private group messages, however unpleasant, do not change the facts at the heart of this case: that a female nurse is seeking justice after suffering discrimination and harassment because she didn’t want to share changing facilities with a male doctor."

It’s kinda terrifying that ‘respectable’ society see female prisoners as unpalatable.. and to see that as a reason to force them to share enclosed spaces with men who are mostly violent offenders is barbaric! Makes you think of what ‘respectable’ society is actually about!