NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

I really need to see what michael foran has to say about this on substack, or even twitter.

LN Only contributing the bare minimum [re I Khelif]

NC Look at p1598 - info in a different form. At the end of your long msg, its the msg about yr whole family becoming splintered about yr ?stepsons bigotted views
LN I'm saying Messenger isnt the right place to discuss this. It wasn

This must be tough for LN, deeply personal family stuff having to be [and I accept that it has to be] brought out in public.

I’m really struggling with the point of some of these questions and interjections, I hope NC does a good job of wrapping it up in simple terms at the end. She just needs to leave it on a clear note, at the moment everything seems quite muddy and unclear.

Me too.

Imagine going to tribunal and screwing over your colleague and friend of years who you’ve holidayed with, been in group chat with in favour of some stunning and brave doctor who you’ve never met.

I definitely think Pete should be making an appearance.

me shutting her down. It's not the right place.
NC But u didnt shut the boxer convo down?
LN I wasnt taking part in it
JR I'm not sure the boxer's sex or GI has been determined
J U can raise in cross
NC U were still in then?
LN I dont recall seeing it and wasnt participating

I wonder where this is going??

Sandie's reference to her 'gay' married MP is entirely congruent with the context of the discussion she was having into which Lindsey Nicoll inserted herself. Saying merely that her MP agreed with her would have made no sense whatsoever without the additional context that they were gay.

It was also Lindsey who raised the subject of Sandie's daughter being gay in the screenshots I've seen, implying that Sandie's position must necessarily put her at odds with her daughter.

For Sandie to apparently discuss the matter openly on FB group chat though was incredibly unwise.

She doesn’t have to have met the man, this isn’t based on what the man is like, it’s based on the very fact that he’s a MAN and shouldn’t be in the FCR. My husband and my sons are lovely people, but women shouldn’t have to accept them in a FCR.

NC [new doc] Can you read - an exchange betwn "Gina Hardy" and SP where SP asking for further details re DUs previous complaint. She says the head boss told her in the MH team..She's talking about DU. DU had caused chaos in his prev job
LN Yes, she does seem to be saying that.

Can I safely assume that NHSF HR are currently sitting with their heads in their hands trying to work out how they are going to sort this sorry mess at the end of this?

They were so busy trying to appease one small issue and totally unaware of (or deliberately ignoring) a widespread racism issue.

Looks like DrU's 'previous' might be doing just that!

She didn’t do it for that reason. She did it to protect her employer - the NHS. Might be partly misguided loyalty and partly getting one over on SP, who she probably never liked much.

I imagine LN feels SP does not deserve any compensation from the NHS and she feels that compensation might be taken away from worthwhile causes like staff wages or patient care. (When that’s not true as the NHS has a separate budget for legal issues etc)

She got this info from a family relative, not directly from her
NC You stepped in to try to shut down that convo?
LN [long pause] Yes. I think it's the [pause] I did cos the day before and b4it had gone on. All this chat about the dr... I just thoughts it's enough Messenge cha

Just to clarify - I mean they all make racist jokes about each other, not about some other group. None are hypocritical or racist.

Being dismissive about a particular person based on their nationality or ethnicity is clearly racism and I would not want to be friends.

LN - [Sandie asking for help] not suitable for messenger chat, so shut it down. But didn’t shut down the racist chats.

[did TT miss a bit here?]
LN Yes, I was aware she was suspended
So reasonable for her to look for a lot of support from her friends
LN I think I did say early on Hope yr ok
NC U tried to shut down convos that cld help her
LN I said it wasnt approp to do on Chat [missed

@Extravirginolive also I would have reported him as a colleague especially in HR has an impact on work, is completely unacceptable

It certainly undermines your trustworthiness doesn't it?

Imagine knowing her, and how much you'd look at her differently after this? I'd be wtf, I'm not sure I want to deal with you EVEN if I couldn't stand Sandie!

With friends like these...

Im alright Jack, pull the ladder up.

So it’s not enough to harm SPs professional reputation. This witness/JR/NHS Fife are happy to try to tear apart and destroy SPs family. They are ruthless. No low point that they wouldn’t stoop to win their case. It is disgusting.

Maybe SP had initial worries for her DD and spoke in confidence to this witness. What an absolute bitch to now tell the whole world. Simply to stealth boast about her shiny ‘I am perfect’ badge ("it’s not that difficult"). This kind of behaviour shows up people as utter sanctimonious…

It is indeed. But there’s no denying this is a very visible battle in the UK’s long-running culture war over genderism in society.

I mean Churchill was snobbish and racist, and we mostly overlook that bc he helped lead the Allies to victory, and a man of his time and his class; but it’s less than ideal if the woman striking a blow for women’s rights is a racist and an Islamophobe

Haha Lindsey Lindsey Lindsey. Only Sandie's comments were meant to be considered by the tribunal.

Oh here it comes.... NC has something...

Ohhhhhh so the chat has been going for 7 years, but only 2 pages from it were disclosed by the board.