NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

Thread is here
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381615-sarah-summers-wins-single-sex-provision-for-rpe-support-in-brighton-hove?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Apparently the group chat messages? I’m not sure if they have been shared in the press, someone mentioned The Courier?

NC pointing out the witness own biases..

Well wouldn’t we all go on holiday with colleagues who we thought were nasty horrible racists? Something smells decidedly fishy to me.

I'm old enough to remember Bernard Manning and this sort of 'humour' should have died with him.
This can't have been a surprise to NC as there has been disclosure and it is likely SP knew what they would be saying. Remember NC has been given permission to recall SP to deal with the racism allegations. They must feel they have some kind of rebuttal.
I still can't fathom that someone is naive enough to commit these comments to a group chat.
I don't think it is ok to dismiss this as working class vernacular and compare it to building site humour. Nurses are professionals. They care for patients and have colleagues of all races and religions.
I hope she can turn this around when she is recalled but frankly if it was me, I wouldn't have brought this claim if I thought this shit fest might surface.

I bet we are going to have tears next.

"I've gone on holiday with a homophobic, transphobic racist by mistake"

I agree 100%.

The implication is that there others who agree about the CR situation.

very well said.

Even if she’s racist that is irrelevant for the purpose of this tribunal. People with abhorrent views are still entitled to fairness and justice the same as everyone else.

Also quoting SP's replies to LN as not at all confrontative, SP somebody you could have a discussion with.

its still not okay to accept sexual harassment at work regardless of her sense of humour.

No I wasn't worried when my sons told they were gay, but I was worried........

Literally what I was just about to post.

I have never been on holiday with a colleague. I struggle just going to the pub with certain colleagues! So why would I spend my money to go on holiday with them?

Think I've mentioned on these threads before, but I have a now adult daughter who identifies as trans, whose trans identity I have not affirmed, so she has cut me off. In response to my declining to use the demanded name and pronouns, I've been screamed at for being a racist and homophobe as well as a transphobic bigot. It's part of the TRA script used to denounce those who won't enable their loved ones' pretend identities. My daughter knows I'm not racist or homophobic and haven't said or done anything to give the impression I am. Totally unsurprising that the respondents were going to try to paint SP as racist and homophobic anyway, they've lucked out as she's actually made some racist jokes in a group chat. Not that it should be relevant to her right to a single sex changing facility but it's unfortunate given the TRA narrative that people who don't want to enable pretend sex identities are racist and homophobic too.

Ohhhh I'm so kind

LN My son was gay, her child was gay. I feel I was making a point about bigotyr NC But yr bunching things tog. The CR has nothing to do w CRs
No
NC It's understandable that concerns when a child gay
LN No. My only concern re my sons being gay was about bigotry

Misgendering!

TT 1522

NC I'm talking about her msg back to you. She'd be gentle and not bite yr head off
LN I'd never had a face to face on this w her
NC Do u agree the others agrre w her?
LN It depends on ppl's stance re the CR. My issue is about her views and how she likely behave to the dr.

TT 1523
Ppl w have different views re being in a CR w a trans dr. No I'd never met him
NC But u had strong views on him for being a T woman
Yes
NC W/out any interaction w him
Yes
NC SP points out her stance has nothing to do w being gay?
LN My view was her being bigotted.

So, this witness is conflating her concern about homophobia with SP's feeling unhappy with DU in the changing room.

I am working class and in my 60s as is my (Scottish) husband.

We might have heard that word (and worse) in our childhoods but neither of us have ever used it or other racist terms. Nor do we casually exchange racist jokes with our mates.

Stop trying to minimise or excuse SP's racism. (That doesn't mean that I agree with biological women being forced to share changing rooms with biological men btw).

I will go back to lurking now. Thank you to the posters who post the updates, it is all fascinating.

JR sticking her oar in again for the second time in as many questions

LN ‘my issue is about her views’ oh dear Lynsay, you’re really not understanding what this is all about are you?

Sad times.

Exactly this. If a person with a disability also came out with some racist views they would still be entitled to access services or spaces that only existed for people with disabilities, for example.

As far as I'm aware, no-one accessing spaces or services have their opinions assessed before they are allowed to access them. If they were, many TRAs wouldn't be allowed to venture out in public.

💐