NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

Is reputation damage a solid one block thing, or could it be the case that you could have a bad reputation for one thing, e.g. racism, but that accusations of transphobia when there is not proof is reputational damage in itself as you didn't have a rep for that?

Today's evidence certainly does emphasise an NHS culture in which racism is just way down the priority list compared with gender issues. The poorer maternity outcomes of black women compared with white women, the situation during covid when ethnic minority staff were disproportionately likely to find themselves in the kind of frontline roles that maximised exposure to infection, stats about NHS professionals from overseas being more likely to get severer punishments in disciplinary cases -- these are the news stories I've heard over the years relating to racism issues in the NHS. Anti-racism should be a more central and effective part of NHS inclusion/diversity policies than it appears to be.

NC Good pm Miss Nicholl. What passed betwn u and Fiona Wisshart at lunch today?
She asked me about what I wanted for lunch
NC Why were u standing right in the corner?
LN I was charging my phone
NC Not doing yr best not to be seen

I wonder whether, when people take time to digest this case, they'll learn that the lesson to be taken from it is:
a) someone who doesn't accept gender identity ideology is certainly a racist as well as a transphobe; or
b) allowing male people to use women's single sex spaces in a workplace risks causing massive amounts of ill-feeling and can cause all kinds of unpredictable and consequential damage to an organisation.

NC is coming out swinging 🍿🍿

LN No, charging my phone
NC [ new doc] This is what happened in Feb 2024 shortly after the xmas eve events in 23. You msged SP to say finding the sitn difficult and her objections to DU using the CR, am paraphrasing.Sps response is strikingly concilliatoty and gentle, no?

Stealing electricity, Lindsey! Shocking!

I have to say that I'm impressed with the fact that the numbers of observers has remained consistently near-full attendance throughout the proceedings.

#NoSnowflakeryHere

Yep.

But is it transphobic to not want a man watching you change and thinking he is a weirdo for putting a bra an knickers on and calling himself a woman?

or c) if a woman dares to speak out about something that’s unlawful, she will be dragged through the courts, smeared and disgraced even if she’s not the one who’s been accused. As ever, as it always has been and will always be.

No it isn’t.

God now LN making much, none of it good, about Sandie mentioning her MP was gay

NC pointing out gentle conciliatory response to Lindsey on FB group

Lindsey still quibbling says SP didn't need to mention her MP is gay. No need to mention that in response to Lindsey's accusation of homophobia.

👏👏👏👏

LN In some ways. Previously she'd been reaching out for info. She's made a point about a gay married MP. Why mention gay?
NC It's a gay married MP on her side in this issue. He point re DU not being a W or not in CR. Saying she has an issue w DU being a man

colluding with a witness she's not supposed to speak to

Meanwhile in much better news ... https://sarahsurviving.substack.com/p/sarah-surviving-and-survivors-network

(There's also another thread on MN)

I'm surprised that this evidence about racism is allowed - is it purely to impugn ST'S character? Its not relevant to what went on in the changing room or whether SP was harassed. If there was racism it wasn't directed at DU. Even if SP is racist it doesn't mean that her evidence is any less true. She probably shares a lot of views with Reform voters. You wouldn't be allowed to argue "well youre a horrible person because you vote Reform" in a legal case about something completely different. I just dont see the relevance.

That IS good news. Well done Sarah! 👍

NC points out that witness claimed it was before Mosque was built and it was built in 2020. I doubt very much they remember who said it and I doubt very much SP repeated it. I suspect she was in the group when it was said and it is now being retrofitted to her.

Also saying the ‘weirdo’ comment looks bad for SP is being led up the garden path — the evidence is not from the group chat SP is in but from a, clearly, true believer whi a reporting that’s what SP said. There is no evidence at all SP said that. As we know all it takes for a TRA is someone to assert that bio sex is real for them to want to ascribe lots of shit to them.

LN It's a way to say she's not homophobic. I dont see ehy she shld mention it "Her MP" wld be enough. She doesnt want to lose our friendship
NC We can see from this exchange y've suffered painfully from homophobia in yr own life?
LN Yes. Views have splintered up my whole family
NC U went to Benidorm? Yes
NC So she was gearing up to the case
LN SP agreed not to discuss it in front of me. Just one day in front of pool. SP said she wldnt discussed [when asked if was for LNs benefit]
NC Fair to ocnclude wasnt discuss for yr benefit

So Lindsey went on holiday with Sandie last December, just before tribunal started?

I totally agree. It doesn't matter if SP is the most hateful person. She has rights, and nothing she is alleged to have said or done should result in those rights being removed from her.

Agreed I find it deeply disturbing that a nurse testified they were laughing at Sandie, a nurse, for being what they perceived as being racist. Like this is a joke to them?

I've seen the jokes - is there anything in writing that Sandie used the term "P**i"? (edited by MNHQ)