NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #45

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

Gina Harding is next for the ducking stool......

No. I don’t see why. I’m curious when her own team found out about them though.

It's clear that a lot of people mistake colleagues for friends (I have, to a certain extent) and also forget that if a group chat has only colleagues on it, it's de facto a work chat. They all sound toxic.

The racism is appalling and seems pretty indisputable, I assume it's being hammered as there's no evidence for the homophobia.

Ffs 🤦‍♀️

Any sane person abhors racism but it isn’t what this is about. SP isn’t being tried in the court of public opinion, it’s a court based on facts, not rhetoric or feelings. If they all felt so strongly about this, why didn’t even one of them report her? Why did no patients report her? She has a 30 year unblemished record. Given what we learned last week about doctored evidence on Upton’s phone, I’m reserving judgement on this until it’s confirmed. It won’t make me like SP if she’s a racist, but I would stand by her all day long for her legal rights to SSS.

So irn bru and ham sandwich could well have been a secret code.....they are now talking about staying in the Trump hotel.

LN She seemed full of hate and anger towards DU.
JR [new doc] The msg 17.09 was from s'one in the gp?
LN Yes, from Gina
JR [reads re picture of the weirdo. "No, the pic of that weirdo Beth"...I dint realise the weirdo she was referring to as Beth
JR Did u ever hear SP using weirdo about Beth
LN Yes, at the lunch. SP msged the wrong person, Ginas partner, about the picture
JR [new doc] Did u leave the gp chat?
LN This is in Feb, after deciding to take the tribunal. I thought I might not go but regretted it

With my usual mixed race note commenting, I am part Pakistani. I'm not sure where I am on these revelations.

My working class Pakistani grandad and white friends make some pretty racist jokes and they aren't racist exactly. Racism is complex. But equally this would be inappropriate now and I would expect a nurse to know not to use these terms even in. A joke.

I'm disappointed, I imagine this is a fitness to practice issue for all. Why didn't any of Sandie's friends raise it with her and explain? Why wasn't NHS doing anti racism training?

Again this creates a really terrible atmosphere for ethnic minority staff in the NHS Fife. They seem to have been so focused on fashionable causes they've thrown ethnic minorities and women under the bus.

If she's racist and homophobic then that is awful. But there are women in JAIL for horrendous offences (eg, Rose West), and I still support their right and need to have single sex spaces.

And if she's racist and homophobic and openly espoused such views in a work environment and/or in front of colleagues, then hell slap it into her bosses for allowing the situation to go unchecked.

If it is, Blyton's Secret Seven would have been embarrassed by it's obviousness.

This is exactly what I think too but couldn’t articulate it well. I imagine this is a case of forwarding jokes into a group chat and honestly if you looked into my whatsapp im sure you would find some bad taste jokes in there both sent and received.

Racism is of course wrong, but I think that you’re entitled to hold whichever beliefs you wish privately as long as it doesn’t impact your work and how you treat patients and colleagues. 30 years of unblemished service indicates that her private views have not impacted on the quality of her nursing care.

And let’s not forget, Sandie is not on trial here. She is the complainant, she is alleging that NHS Fife have treated her unfairly and they are STILL treating her unfairly by forcing her to respond to a vicious personal attack based on private messages within what appears to be a broadly like minded group of people.

LN And never did it again. I told others in the chat I wld be leaving and wldnt go to Benedorm and wldnt be with SP as we had different values
JR You talk about feeling diff in the CR. How many Band 5 use the CR?
LN U tend to work 13 shifts over the week. 7.30 to 8pm day or night.

JR finished.

NC needs 20 mins to take instructions. Back at five past 3

Back in my nursing days, I never went on staff lunches, nights out, holidays. I never took part in group chats (was never invited thankfully).
I wasn't part of the clique and the reasons why are being demonstrated today.

What awful people. Too chicken shit to challenge racist behaviours. Two faced enough to share lunches and holidays with a colleague they despised. Happy to gossip between themselves but not to do anything meaningful about any of their 'concerns'

What a horrible hoard they are.

Well this has been a shit show so far today

Yep this is awful.

I don’t like racists, but it is a bit surprising to me that the judge (who is making belated attempts to keep the timetable on track) is allowing so much time on this issue. I see why Fife want it in (trashing her reputation) but how is it relevant to their processes on trans issues and SPs suspension and investigation process..?

Fife might think they have a lovely warm inclusive cuddly culture but this is showing that they really really don't.

I just hope this is how the panel sees it.

LN Is very rare to meet drs in the CR.
JR [new doc] [reads re menstrual flood and looking at menstrual privacy stuff as well] What did u make of that?
LN [couldnt hear brief answer]
JR Nothing further
NC I'll need to take instructions after that evidence, maybe 20 mins

Bit of an understatement, NC😦

God I hope I go to hell where all the sinners are, and not to heaven with the saints🙏

It's unpleasant if SP is racist but that's not why she was suspended. Fife may need to start a new investigation into this Whatsapp group which will have to include investigation of all members of the group including this witness.

It's not polite to call a colleague a 'weirdo' but as an insult it doesn't specifically imply anything about a protected characteristic IMHO. And frankly if someone at work was writing down when I went in and out of the changing room I would regard that as very strange and concerning behaviour.

It does make me think that I can understand why Rihanna didn't want to get involved.

LN suddenly decided not to go on the next holiday AFTER she knew about the tribunal, the cohort had all obviously decided on their strategy by then and she picked her side. Time will tell whether she made the right decision.

It's a good example of why I don't like the "bring your whole self to work" thing.

I don't bring my whole self to work. I bring my professional self to work. I certainly don't bring politics to work. My view is that, when I've got my work hat on, I have no opinions on anything except my job.

In private life I've got opinions on all sorts of things, and some people might find some of them spicy, but that's another reason to be guarded around work colleagues.

Never mistake work colleagues for friends. Some will have your back in a crisis, and some will definitely not.