NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Describing Peggie's actions in leaving the changing room, and in not chatting to him, as "weird" is, well ... weird. He is pretending that he doesn't know or guess why she might feel uncomfortable about his presence. It is possible that he might be trying to blind himself to the reason why, but it strikes me as more likely that he was writing this for the benefit of others.

For me that makes it less likely that the notes were contemporaneous. I hate myself for speculating like this but it is just so strikingly odd that he would pretend not to know why she was uncomfortable. That involves, not just denying that he is a man, but also disregarding the fact that he is, in his terminology, a trans woman.

No, she did absolutely the right thing in not naming them

And no doubt reading notes about making people uncomfortable is a joy too.
I definitely think the notetaking is part of reliving the enjoyment later.

Is he transgender now?

I cannot keep up

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42?reply=145939431&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

For clinical stuff NHS indemnity covers all employees. My personal indemnity is for when my employers decide their interests and mine are not the same eg they want to settle a clinical matter and I know I have not done anything wrong.
I am of course always professional, honest and kind even when asking the GMC why it records gender not sex. Therefore how can patients therefore be assured that a doctor they have seen/will see is in fact male or female bodied 🤦🏼‍♀️

this one is fine for me the last few days and today

https://lightbrd.com/tribunaltweets

And we are off with IT guy 2

It's Shobna's business alone but I always find it odd people in my age bracket coming out non-binary because we grew up at a time when it was absolutely normal for women to have short hair and dress andogynously or however they liked. And it was at a time when toys & clothes & furniture were more expensive so it was extremely common for everyone to have stuff in primary colours or neutral shades because almost noone was going to eg buy gendered lego and play tables and then replace it in a different colour for their second child of the opposite sex.

Tribunal Tweets (@tribunaltweets) | nitter.poast.org
working OK for me

As a middle aged IT GUY (female, yes we do exist!). Its extremely clear to me that DU and/or his gang retrospectively edited his notes after the fact to make things seem worse/the impact on him seem greater and dont want to admit that. The defendants knew they had to produce the phone evidence, and so got their own in house IT people to look at it and be puzzled by the digital trail that shows that the notes were edited after the fact, as they knew they would be, because NHS in house IT is notoriously basic (good people quickly leave for more money elsewhere or IT servcies are outsourced to specialist IT service firms).

I expect actual IT expert next will be illuminating.

Have you checked here: https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances

I am reminded of Portishead Sour Times. "Cause nobody loves me, it's true"

We all have to bow down it seems.

It's exactly like this!! I'd been trying to remember what it reminded me of, and that's precisely it.

I have a mental image of the judge throwing open his front door at the end of yet another day in court listening to this absolute mince from the respondents, shouting FFS as he kicks off his shoes and drops his trousers in the hallway, then throwing himself down on the sofa to crack open a can of Peroni and catch up on MAFSA. The man must be pondering his life choices at this point.

Deleted as have found what I was looking for!

Shades of that thread where some young IT chap came on here and offered to 'help' all the Silly Mummies of Mumsnet with their IT. Forgetting, of course, that any number of women on here could be - and were - IT bods of more experience than him.

My favourite response was "Thank god you're here, I've just been bashing my tits against the keyboard and hoping for the best"

But only a junior junior in terms of years at the Bar. She has plenty of impressive stuff on her CV.

His notes make him sound like a stalker who isn't getting the response he wants from his target.

See top - p1 - of this thread

The problem there is JR represents both NHSF and Upton. It might be in NHSF interest to state Upton was acting beyond the scope of his employment and therefore they should not be vicariously liable for his actions, but it certainly won’t be in Upton’s.

She shouldn’t have mentioned them at all - her own discomfort was enough. If other people have an issue but choose not to do anything about it, it’s not for anyone else to be saying “and I’m not the only one”. That gives him no way of addressing it while having to work knowing that other people are unhappy with him, which could be considered creating a hostile work environment.

Sorry, have just read below!!

Weird sounds very deliberate, that it hasn’t crossed his mind anyone could see him as a man and that’s why he’s being avoided.

I can’t possibly imagine why Sandie doesn’t want to hang out in the CR with me, discussing lipstick. Weird.

Far be it from me to suggest someone who was actually WARHAMMER CHAMPION at high school is a bit autistic and might have the odd blind spot when it comes to reading people. I mean I'm a bit thon wey myself. Pretty good at being a software engineer, really bad at people-ing.