NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

It’s an over-used plot twist in crime dramas. Hinges on whether you take buccal or other mucosal swabs vs others.

Expert in irrelevancy?

Surely you can't, because round earth is WORIADS and will be proven so if any employer is stupid enough to claim it isn't.

Absolutely none! Michael Foran on twitter described JR behaviour as "absolutely extraordinary"

One of the previous docs - I've lost track of the names - modestly said that heavens to Betsy she couldn't be expected to know about those chromosomy things as she wasn't a geneticist.

MC was less modest, but it's an epic fail when a non medical person knows more about those chromosomy things than you do😂

Chimerism. DNA transferred so can change recipients although no cases where male has transformed to female. It’s a pointless discussion. And probably its only purpose is to do a “ ha ha” moment saying SP can’t tell sex from chromosomes.
Chimerism can occur for lots of reasons and can very, very occasionally affect DNA evidence. But since DU has been identified as a man who is transitioning to a trans woman it’s totally irrelevant since the case does not revolve around DNA evidence or for that matter chromosomes.
If DU was offended that SP presumed to know his chromosomal make up then unless he had previously told her what it was as then it’s of no relevance. DSDs are a complex area and usually lead to mis-sexing baby boys since they are almost exclusively associated with XY variations.

And this is how you find out that YOU, yes YOU, are one of those nasty terfs that everybody hates.
Welcome to the club 😁

Well, I think that filibuster backfired on JR. NC now has a very solid two hours with MC starting at 10am on Tuesday..

I take it Upton won’t be in court again?

And a weekend to work on her question order!

So was JR trying to insist NC started cross examination now?

Only if JR wants to recall him. Which would mean he would be cross-examined again by NC, who will dismantle him over the phone notes evidence.

Yes but the Judge wasn't having it - had she not overrun her time with irrelevancies NC might have been made to start.

Filibuster! that's the word I was racking my brains for, but I was going to go for 'taking the ball to the corner flag' instead. Fortunately JR stopped doing either before I had to commit.
Gosh it's only 15.23, feels like we've been let off school early!

I know you have to try to make evidence look unreliable in cross examination but outright accusing someone of being bribed with no evidence does seem extraordinary to me. Legal eagles, any comment? @prh47bridge ?

I think I read somewhere that if you give birth a few of the baby's chromosomes escape and stay with you. So a woman giving birth to a boy has a few y chromosomes floating around in her body. Funnily enough, I have a son and am still very much a woman. (Although wearing trousers and no make up and with short hair, I am not womaning very well today.)

As an aside I'm so sick of hearing about Uptons 'distress'.
Any other doctor, especially in A&E, and female, would be laughed out of the hospital and told to get a grip.
It's pathetic.

Sad times.

Sorry, I’m a bit late to this thread - is there an audio of this? I thought it was only TT on X

Doesn’t the bone marrow thing merely reinforce the fact people can’t change sex?

What a day! Another thank you to @BezMills . Was properly laughing at

"...fourth best option?"

Stirling Albion

😁And thank you for these threads. Am equally so furious and glad this is all getting sunlight.

100%. Former rugby player I believe, as well.

Other relevant section from TT in Feb to phone evidence - NC cross. This is ?end Dec/Jan when Dr. Upton has allegedly run into Sandie in CR.

NC: You are complaining re the dept unable to guarantee your safety, you feel exposed to risk of encountering SP. Clear indication you are looking for BMA assistance in increasing pressure on board to have SP remove.
DU: No, for guidance how to achieve real safety at work - at that point had only had assurances re the next shift or so.
NC: This is about punishing SP
DU: No not interested in punishment, vengeance, retribution. In justice.
NC: Which you do by going straight to ED, seeking her out; making up incident on 28/12 re socks/plaster room; embellishing incident w/Rohanna. All for punishment.
DU: No not punishment. All about wanting resolution, way forward. Nothing made up.
NC: You made up that SP asked about chromosomoes
DU: No she said it. Why would I make it up. Not interested in punishment.
NC: Pack of lies. Lies which cd not only have lost SP her job, cd have had her struck off.
DU: Not lies. Not interested in punishment or striking off. Her harassment. Not safe to work with her, but not interested in punishement.
NC: It's all about controlling your female colleagues
DU: No not interested in that, it's not about that, it's about treating colleagues with respect.
NC: Done your best to end SP 30 year unblemished career, to punish her for standing up to you.
DU: No. Interested in getting situation resolved so we can get back to ER work. Interested in justice. Peaceful resolved.
NC: There is a bully in this story, but it's not he 50 year old nurse wanting a women's CR to deal with a menstrual flood.
DU: She bullied me. If you are implying I am the bully that's wrong.

I don't think belief in a 'fact' is protected in the same way as belief in a philosophy or religion.

You would need to prove the fact, but you don't need to prove a philosophical or religious belief.

Definitely