NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Well if this is important, let's chromosome test DU.

I thought it was rude to talk about chromosomes....

Omg the old 'let's baffle and befuddle with clever words' tactics. Sorry love this won't work. Sad time, bigly sad times.

Turns you into a third sex don't'cha know.

How much dirtier can she possibly play it?

Especially after NC expressed concern about a lack of symmetry. You'd think a judge would be anxious not to play into that suggestion and have to hope it bodes well - but with this bizarre fantasy movement which argues black is white and is applauded for it, anything's possible.

And we're done until Monday.

Another report

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/dr-beth-upton-misled-sandie-35618331?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

JR Miss Cunningham knows and says is Swyers
J Let me ask again about breaks? Now or start cross but not finish it. Remind me.
NC My position hasnt changed and hardened as a lot of info has come out in chief. Which I can think about better later
JR I'd like to do at least half

Miss Cunningham knows fuckin' everything, JR😁

I propose a vote to make Bez an honorary women, all those in favour say Aye, get in there ya dancer

So what's Monday if MC can't be there until Tuesday? Or did I misunderstand?

Two more witnesses for the respondents.

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE OIL THAT FUCKING DOOR?

JR an hour now. I think it's best to stop now.
J You can come back at 10am on Tuesday [reminds re not discussing evidence]. And we can discuss some issues w advocates now.
J We have Nichol on Monday and then the issue of what the C, if anything wants to

?? so JR overruns, wastes time, and then says it's best to stop now - yeah, we've run out of waffle and NC knows more than the doc about genetics!

It is interesting, I agree (having had the privilege of an oncology / haematology rotation during my training)

But absolutely dick all to do with a male individual claiming a female gender identity, my comment was pure exasperation

Not if she thinks she is explaining that there are more than 2 sexes or that you can change sex.

I suspect she doesn't think this, and that this is all irrelevant.

So Naomi is going to refresh over the weekend. And go in for the kill first thing Monday morning.
I look very much forward to that.

Meanwhile, I have gardening to do. See you all bright and breezy next week 👋

I can see Sandie!!! 😍

from herald
3:11pm
Ms Cunningham has said some "unexpected" information emerged in chief and has asked whether she can have until Tuesday before starting cross-examination to consider these points.
Ms Russell disagreed and said she wanted "at least" half an hour of cross to occur.
Judge Sandy Kemp said he believed it made sense to break.
We resume on Monday with emergency nurse practitioner Lindsay Nicoll.
Ms Cunningham also says she wants to give thought to how to complete submissions.
There are discussions about extending the tribunal to Thursday, if absolutely necessary.
Court rises until Monday.

I strongly object to permitting this class of 'special' women! 😛

I think one of us will have to prime delivery a bottle of WD40 to NC's office and she can do it Monday morning.

Thank Christ we've finished early, I might get some bloody work done.

In response to a (much) earlier post - quite possibly from another thread because I've long since lost track of what thread I'm on now - no, cooking fennel does not improve it.

The only thing that improves fennel or celery is firmly shutting the bin lid on them. Asparagus, however, I will not hear a bad word about!

J - MC on Tues will take to noon at least. NC?
NC I wld like to give this some thought. How best to manage submissions? J I understand. We can attend on Thurs if we need to. We'll see and maybe after the weekend we'll have a better idea. Also the bundle.
cross of the last witness, Dr [missed]. [SESSION ENDS]
. We should just have the
cross of the last witness, Dr [missed]. [SESSION ENDS

My guess is that she's bringing up the chromosomes to discredit Sandie - and say that as a humble nurse thinking there were only xx and XY she was of course wrong.

But as far as I recall, we have only Dr Upton's word that Sandie mentioned chromosomes.

Isn't it more likely that an experienced nurse would say something like " I have seen enough men and women's bodies in my time to know which is which?" Much like the midwife and Paediatrician who have been on these threads and have both said "I have seen enough babies to know which is a boy or a girl." Which they then qualified by saying how rare DSDs were and that they had literally only seen the odd one in their extensive careers.

"Mr Borthwick's evidence suggested that it would have taken a "catastrophic" incident for the notes to be changed without Dr Upton's knowledge and that he couldn't recreate this, despite him trying numerous times. He rejected suggestions he was being paid by Ms Peggie's team to say that Dr Upton was "lying.""

I hadn't quite twigged that this was what was going on. Counsel were trying to suggest that Borthwick was bribed by SP's team to give false evidence? What evidence is there of that?

TT's afternoon tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1948726323192402398.html

I wonder when Michael Foran will start his next livestream.