NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #42

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

Sad times.

Impossible it's a tech issue. Impossible a note could be edited before it was created. Can't blame it on a Google glitch

Dr Upton is a DOCTOR, his honesty and integrity is above reproach.

How very dare you!!!!!

This is so telling. Initially he just wrote 'nurse' - disposable mere burse, not taking my shit. Then later went back and added her name as the witchhunt against one uppity nurse gained steam.

I knew JB would eviscerate these idiots. Imagine being so arrogant to assume you could do this and not leave a trail.

Yes. He has the GMC to answer to, you know.

Of course he may have changed nothing substantive- just tidied them up.

But they are no longer contemporaneous and shouldn’t have been taken as such.

Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly.

This witness is brilliant.

I have a vague recollection at the early stages of this that it was the fact DU had ‘contemporaneous notes’ of each incident that NHSF gave more weight to, while SP had to try & recall details from memory so she couldn’t be clear on some details because she hadn’t taken notes at the time.

This evidence is definitely ‘gold’. Given NHSF’s IT expert couldn’t explain the discrepancies, this independent expert has a duty to the court to analyse & explain as much as is possible from what’s been presented by NHSF. He has no axe to grind here, just his expert opinion to explain what he’s reviewed & analysed.

It is indeed sad times for Dr Upton

Jim isn't tripping over his words, is he?

100%. I'm all for recognising that people are human beings in the work place but this is just too much. Ultimately everyone is there because they are paid (varying amounts!) to do a job. As long as people are professional then no they don't have to go round smiling and cheerful and chit chatting all the time. Maybe some are further on their philosophical journey than others and are pondering the complete pointlessness of life, maybe they are trying to avoid wrinkles, maybe they're busy thinking about their poor financial situation or trying to remember the massive list of things they still have to do when they get home or trying to solve the latest mystery in Department Q or maybe they actually just don't like you very much and all of that is OK. Stop putting your self worth into other people's hands, and stop fighting desperately for control when you already gave it away by caring so much what other people think of you.

This from the Herald:

12:09pm
Ms Elves asks Mr Borwick about the contemporaneousness of the phone notes.
They are looking at print outs of Dr Upton's Google Keep notes.
He is asked about changes to notes, and he says
One note from 16th oct 2023 was edited to add the Sandie Peggie's name.
Another made on 18th dec 2023 added comments 'about working nights, wont make eye contact, acknowledge, engage can feel hostility' which was added at 5:15am.
He says the notes are not contemporaneous.
“There appears to have been changes at different dates and times, so it has been edited.”

I think it worth noting here that KS testified that she contacted IB on December 8 to ask about policy -- did she not?

Following on from ED bringing the SP questions to her atttention.

One wonders, therefore, if DU happened to have shown KS his notes and KS, perhaps, 'drew out' more detail from DU which he then added...

Her contact with IB on Dec 8 and this is very suggestive. It makes me wonder if that was NC's purpose in questioning about the Dec 8 contact.

I know I'm not techy when I hear 'synch issue' as sink issue. I was wondering there for a minute was there something crucial about who washed their hands and when.

That crossed my mind that people further up the food chain were trying to save their own skins and put Upton of the boat.

Even some of those further down are probably regretting backing him, hes made them all look like complete idiots.

If i'm understanding rightly, JB is explaining how he tried to come up with explanations other than 'it was messed about with' but failed; so being very fair to DrU, not making assumptions that he messed about with it.
Meaning the conclusion 'he messed about with it' carries more weight.
I think that's what's going on!

And he’s KIND, KS said so and she’s also VERY KIND and she said that as well.

From TT

JB - set ou tin order, showing what was added on particular dates
CE - what does add/edit removal of notes tell you
JB not contemporaneous, been changed over time
CE - you said this section added 5:15am on 15th Dec
JB - yes
CE - 1587 - can see another block of highlighted
CE - explain

Fifer : so at the end ae the races the day, we're gonnae be asked whether we believe IT Manager, (works for The Board), has a 'forensic backgroond' according to himself, had to even admit that his job was done pish poor and quick. Or, the guy who dis this for his actual main job, for 20 year. Has a company wi jist his initials plus "Computers" in it. It's like the boxing. The Speccie Loddie is the Mexican fechter. Bet on the Mexican. He's gonnae win ye ken that noo.

JB - added to note 09:28am on 28th dec 2023
JR - where say?
CE - looking at 1687
JB - sorry went to far 01:51 on 28th dec 23
CE - from fig 23
JB - yes
J - leading
CE - sorry
CE - what do the versions mean for events of 18th dec?
JB - added later so not contemporaneous

Fifer : every time Speccie Loddie says 'not contemporaneous' take a sip. Pished by hauf twelve, sure ane.

CE - now the sync issue - 1700 - read what you say para 6.
JB - sc sh 18-20 log of actions attempt to show actions. I could not replicate, creation date post dates edit date. not possible
CE - explain
JB - report explains google note version histories just can't happen. The idea that google has a server that would do that not poss

Fifer : "It's not imperically possible"

CE - why
JB - google syncs every second, syncing all of your devises, would have to be something catastrophic on google servers, can't replicate.
CE - 1729
J - which bundle?
CE - loose leaf
MG - put in yesterday, printed this am
J - we don't have that as yet, shall i check with clerk?

CE - might put to one side, could jus task witness to explain?
J - yes
CE - doc you created called G sync issue, do you recall?

JB - created to explore how you coud create a google sync issue. Put my phone on airplane mode, so couldn't sync - mimics an error, can't sync. Created a note, left phone off network for 3-4 hrs, connected phone to network, google keep notes sync'd. Examined. Version history reflected reconnection time

Fifer : 'self-professed FORENSIC BACKGROON' : "ah deh ken" shrug.

Actual Forensic Guy Speccie Loddie "I immediately started a project to investigate the possibilities and constructed several working hypotheses, which I investigated systematically hmmmmm"

Do I remember Upton making a point in his evidence that he wasn’t techy?

From twitter: "Liar, liar, big girl's pants on fire!" 😁

This shows Upton was being dishonest. I can't imagine this will help his career as a doctor.

He's very clear. Saying none of these possible explanations given by Upton/Fife IT are possible. No technical explanations.

He ho, hey ho, up the garden path we go 🎵🎶🎵🎶

JB said that changing the date and time on his mobile couldn't reproduce the unusual backwards time stamp found in one of the notes made by Upton.

In terms of a "story" that one can follow, JB is far far better than PD.

I love 'contemporaneousness'.

For the Moss fans, it reminds me of 'overnumerousness".

OMG!

Superimposed