NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

Sometimes I really miss the laugh emoji.

But in this somewhere is a new email found SINCE Feb as that was why there was discussion about KS only finding it in the last couple of months I think. And iirc we haven't previously heard the quote about foot in mouth (although I missed the longer quote or context of that remark)

So I think your timeline is a bit correct but that instead of the email being discussed today and with the sneaky signals of being part of a chain bit that chain missing bits being the smoking gun email from Feb, it's a newer disclosure.

I'm not convinced celeriac is an actual foodstuff. What's the point of it?

I have a niggling feeling that, under all the genderwang right-think guff, Dr Searle is afraid of Dr Upton.

Also adding my wish for the side discussions started with Tandora to be moved to a new thread and/or stop engaging as it is getting too long a digression.

I am also missing the "paused play" side chatter. ☹️ I might have to pick TMS tomorrow if a complete absence of cake conversation carries on into tomorrow morning.

I'm trying to find the details because I think it could be protected characteristic aka her
nebulous dog whistle sex rather than protected belief but I not sure.

PS I know there's a bit about celeriac at least but it's too late in the year for me to try growing that. I hear it's a bit tricky.

What's TMS? Have seen it mentioned a couple of times here

What ? How am I trolling and being deliberately antagonistic?? Im participating in a discussion because it’s important. Are we only allowed to talk to people who agree with us these days? Has it ever occurred to you that this type of attitude is exactly the problem.

I’m responding directly to questions asked of me and the discussion at hand.
In no way am I trying to be “aggravating”, and there’s nothing “non-directional” in my posts.

The only thing entirely “unfounded” are your absurd accusations. Troll hunting is against guidelines so I ask that you please stop.

If you don’t like my posts, please move along.

Doesn't surprise me. It's tricky to eat without being disappointed.

TMS is one of life's great pleasures, I'm going to try to juggle both.

Probably not just Upton but a fear of all the activists who threaten to harm non-believers or even people who do not show active validation.

I will take your word on it @murasaki although some veg does taste much better home grown.

For example, fresh baby turnips are actually quite good. Large turnips yuck.

I think part of the point is probably that it is a winter vegetable, and there aren't vast options.

It's very nice chopped into little chunks and braised with oil, butter, a smidge of lemon juice, and chopped chives sprinkled on in the last few minutes.

Sorry. It's Test Match Special, live cricket on BBC radio.

I’m responding directly to questions asked of me

@Tandora you are responding directly to some questions asked of you. I'm still waiting on do good girls get single sex spaces.

No hurry, I've been waiting almost a decade for someone, anyone to give me a definition of 'woman' to replace adult human female as apparently that's not what it means. Strange how not a single person who is certain what woman doesn't mean has the slightest idea what it does mean.

Here you go @Tandora a whole new thread for you to discuss that to your heart's content. Now give @nauticant a break and stop spamming the tribunal threads on the subject.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378486-biological-sex-is-a-multidimensional-variable-with-various-components-discuss

You’re probably right. it wasn’t quite clear to me when all the disclosures happened. Hopefully a journalist will put together a timeline at some point.

As Foran puts it, KS has only allowed herself to assume, because this is what DU assumes, that the ONLY reason SP might have had for feeling discomfort was because she was a bigot.
**
The dawning realisation that there might be valid reasons for her discomfort had never occurred to KS.
**
That, at the very least, should spark some reflection overnight.

This is a generous interpretation. Fife NHS seems to believe that anyone objecting to a male in the F CR is a bigot. Arguably the dawning realisation is that it is possible for the claimant to argue otherwise. I would be very surprised if there were any reflection as typically people struggle to accept being wrong. Perhaps especially those in positions of power and authority…like a doctor unused to being challenged.

I do also have the problem that I jinx things and when I tune in England has i.e. a batting collapse.

Also makes a lovely soup, with a bit of smoked bacon.

You are me. I got KP out on 157 at the Oval in 2005 by going to the bar. However I got Kasprowicz out at Edgbaston that series by not being able to bear it and going and standing in the garden, so swings and roundabouts.

Bacon improves most veg soups, I find.

Ok but if you are going to claim that discussing sex is a derail, does that mean everyone is going to stop making claims about what sex is, and how everybody knows what DU’s sex is and how absurd it is that the medical witnesses are making equivocal statements about sex? Because truly it’s lost on me how (reductive/ ideological) claims about sex are part of the discussion, but challenging this with actual science is a derail..?

Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components.

It's not - physical, phenotypical presentation of the body is variable and has various components, but sex is a system of two parts. If a type of human other than male or female existed, it would only not be an anomaly/disorder if it had its own reproductive function. But there are only two sexed functions - to provide sperm or egg.

But again, even if it was "a multidimensional variable with various components", so what? Why are you trying so hard to twist reality, science and agreed definitions to "prove" that sex isn't binary - when it not being binary doesn't advance your argument anyway?

If you're male, you're not female. The binariness or non-binariness of sex doesn't change this, even if they were just two of a hundred sexes. If you think DSDs prove a male can be a female by saying so, why is that? Why doesn't this apply to actual fully non-binary features like height, age and ethnicity? Age is as full and infinite a spectrum as can be, it does actually change, and yet I STILL can't magically be 8 or 80 when I'm 40, and expect to have the rights of people of those ages just because I said so.

Can you answer this?