NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

Surely an adult not knowing what "re:" means is on a par with a medical specialist not being able to tell the sex of babies? or indeed themselves

And yet I’m extremely educated on the topic at hand. Just like all those “captured” medics and scientists and academics you keep complaining about eh? Funny that.

@WithSilverBells me too! I hate celery but love celeriac. Celeriac and pear soup is the best!

Need to start a campaign that only doctors who have a clear idea on how to differentiate between male and female get promotion & payrises. Those doctors who say ooh that’s tricky get zilch. The rubbish that has been spouted in this tribunal does not given the general public confidence in their abilities.

Or as one of my colleagues says gender ideology is intellectual wanking.

Sure, all are welcome at GenderBank

Me too, I remember things much better if is write it down, so I do think its part of his memory process.
He needs to remember stuff from February,
However many cases he's listened to between then and now.
Plus this couple of weeks.

50-50 potato and celeriac mash is good as a topping on a veggie/lentil based cottage pie topped with grated Parmesan. Have t made that for years as the kids loathe veggie dishes unfortunately

This case will peak people and they'll never go back.
I still remember an article by Keira Bell reflecting on how, at a vulnerable time, her decision making was badly influenced. Being encouraged to believe she had a fault that could be fixed was like finding a solution. It was worse than snake oil and over time she's had a longer path to a peaceful life than she could have had.

I'm hoping Sandie wins and it's reported loudly and clearly so young people read that sex is reality and it matters. We need more reality and less misleading for the benefit of the younger generations as well as all women.

Are you sure that Ms Peggie is claiming discrimination related to a 'protected belief'? I must have missed it in the original claim.

That's quite the read. (I just looked at Maya's tweets.) Basically, you can have a gender-critical belief as long as you don't tell anyone about it! (Then how would they know?)

Well it has been quite the day in court, hasn't it.

& fennel is indispensable.

That's why commercial revision guides are such a bad idea. Make your own revision guide if you really want to remember something.

Thank you

Yes there were four claims : sexual harassment, indirect discrimination, discrimination related to a protected belief , and one more I can’t remember - also of the harassment variety I think..

Write once. Read twice.
i think there’s a latin version but I’m not that posh

It was odd that she appealed to this with such wide eyes certainty.

If this tribunal has shown us anything, it is that we put professionals on a pedestal and their behaviour often does not warrant the trust we put in them.

Fife has put forward a multitude of witnesses who we would all willingly trust with our lives, our children's lives and our parents lives. We would give their opinion significant weight when making potentially life altering decisions and we would share with them deeply personal and intimate details of our backstory and medical history.

And yet they have all at times been evasive, combative, truculent, and there is extensive evidence of unpleasantness towards their colleagues. They have all lacked the courage to speak plainly about what they surely know about biological sex and it's importance. They have all spoken with fierce determination to double down on the way they have treated a single lone woman.

If nothing else, this case has seriously damaged the way I will feel about hcps in the future. Knowing that there are this many of them who would treat me differently because I don't think men become women on their say so is unnerving for a start.

Thank you for this.

Wonderful to have what we are witnessing so well articulated.

victimisation: being subjected to a detriment for having made a protected disclosure (i.e. being treated worse because you made a claim of discrimination or harrassment.)

Those doctors who say ooh that’s tricky shouldn't be doctors.

This thread has been annoyingly derailed, and if this continues it might get filled up before morning. As a precaution I've set up the continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

Can this thread continue to be used before people move over to the new thread? Thanks.

Absolutely. The process can start up in NHS Fife

Like these medics in the tribunal who don't even know their own sex? Those medics?

Thank you

I don't blame you at all. I don't think it's anything less than a cancer in the NHS. Which can (has, according to a post upthread) cost lives.