NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

I think it means having to sit on a stool while someone yells ‘repent, motherfucker!’ at you while they rattle a tambourine….

Someone described it earlier, as ‘sit in that corner and have a good think about what you did that led us to persecute you.’

Rather akin to sitting in a schoolroom corner with a Dunce hat on as they did in Victorian times? Very progressive. Wonder what hat they would provide to be worn.

I have no doubt . You are in familiar company on this thread and most of mumsnet.

Surely fifes information security officer can recover the errant email trail? Not sure what would happen legally then? Crime films on telly like legally blonde would use that as a gotcha but maybe they’re not allowed to in real life :-)

I’m just catching up on the tribunal tweets, I’m on 11th Feb part 1, but I’m a few pages deep, it doesn’t start there.

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2025.02.11-105310/threadreaderapp.com/thread/1889239395309420638.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2025.02.11-105310/threadreaderapp.com/thread/1889239395309420638.html

Or shave your head and march you naked through the streets yelling 'shame, shame, shame'

81 pages!

In fairness over several tribunals, it does seem that NC always seriously underestimates how much time she's going to need for cross-examination. I don't know what the implications for her of making more accurate estimates would be, but at this stage, "make an estimate and then double it" would be a decent start!

I think she fails to factor in Jane Russell and her time wasting. Didn't she interrupt a lot and significantly contribute to time delays in the early stages back in February?

Or runs across to you and shouts 'witch!, witch!, witch!' directly into your face.

Why all the derail about the sex binary? Upton is male. It's not relevant whether people-who-are-not-Upton are of ambiguous sex at birth.

I hope Sandie remembers that modern nursing education also encourages the “positive” reflection, in which the practitioner is encouraged to reflect on what went right, and just hands in a big piece of paper reading “Gotcha, fuckers!”

Yes, it was constant interruptions.

I think she's been fairly good at timekeeping, it's just she was robbed of time by this mornings delay.

That's women for you! We've had millenia to perfect the balance.

I like celery.

They would absolutely LOVE to do that.

yeah but... the issue today was that NC had estimated 1 hour for cross-examining Kate Searle; she's had her hour and by her own estimate needs at least another hour. That's not because of time having been wasted before - it's because, apparently, she said she could cross-examine the witness she'd applied and failed to add as a respondent in one hour. I mean, I don't know why she would say that, but can it ever have been plausible? ETA and JR was not interrupting cross-examination today.

Tomorrow will be intriguing.

But if the IT guy is from Fife thats pretty pointless. I wouldn't trust Fife to actually come out and say 'we found dodgy stuff'.

More likely to be a bit like Nessie, we can't find it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Or the paper could read 'the turtle moves'

And her promotion to a people- manager role, without any training in emplyment law, or a reliable resource of information on what she can and cannot do.

Google, FFS!

If you look at Maya's twitter thread, someone has kindly provided a co-pilot summary in the replies. Definitely more digestible.

I have one word for celeric-haters @ArabellaScott - remoulade. Mayonnaise makes even celeriac worthwhile.

Flooding the zone with shit. Ignore it.

I think the issue is that 6 people involved in the case got together in a private email group to discuss tactics and prevent foot in mouth. They then attempted to conceal this from the court. Spectacularly unethical (also very stupid to do this on your employer’s server). I’m tempted to ask them how they feel it’s working for them.

Sounds like something China would/has indeed come up with. 🤯

Gender identity—our sense of being male or female—develops early in life. By age 2 years, most children are able to identify their own gender, which is typically consistent with the sex they were at birth.

This study falls at the first hurdle. Male and female refer to dimorphic reproductive sex, not any construct of gender stereotypes which can be categorised as masculinity or femininity.

I have no gender identity, but my sex is female - as I told the call handler from NHS 111 on Saturday when I fell ill outside surgery hours. 😉

I'm wrecked having just reached the end of the posts (so far on this thread). Well done all of you who keep us posted of developments.

I have no words left to describe the cult like delusion of highly educated people like KS today. None. So I have one question if someone wouldn't mind filling me in -

Was the subject of the email posted on X by Maya F explored at all? Maybe it wasn't relevant to proceedings today, and apologies if I missed it.

Bear in mind that IT guy is under completely different management and with possibly very different agenda.