NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

Both hands up and waving.

I agree.

If she'd said "I doubt that you can demonstrate that" you could infer that she knew it couldn't be demonstrated because it never happened.

The use of the verb "prove" carries a different inference, especially in a legal setting.

I hope the IT guy is as arrogant as KS.

He was reminiscent of an actor playing a psychopath- obviously psychopaths aren’t actually like that!

So more Anthony Hopkins than Brian Blessed, then? 😀

There is 2 guys coming 1 for mobile phone investigation and 1 for the local IT team. I suspect local IT guy has recovered the complete email exchange KS et al tried to bury. I imagine NC has that in it’s entirety and finds it interesting! Meanwhile the other mobile phone guy has also found interesting stuff on Du phone. Just guessing obviously.

If I were the judge, I'd have this on my Naughty List of recommendations.

Yes I think it has those implications widely- based in its origins (in the electromagnet spectrum), which is why it’s not helpful terminology to describe sex and I wouldn’t use it.

I also incidentally think it’s not helpful terminology when applied to other things- eg ASD:

Just to change the subject can someone please start talking about their superior lemon drizzle cake recipe. Or 5000 things to do with a stick of celery, I don't care.

Bigot or not, still entitled to a sscr

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I want the courgette fritter recipe and can you sub in summer squash if your courgette have been eaten by a slug or three

Just a bit! Eerily calm rather than blearily barmy!

I think that particular cat is immune to logical reasoning.

Yes because she still won't say that black is white.

Yes but that is only one part of SP’s claim against Fife- she has four.

I don't know what difference it would make, he quoted me about four times this morning while demanding to be left alone and I never fed him at all.

Oh, so no recipies then?

I also think there is probably a difference between sports team changing rooms and gym or work changing rooms for both men and women.
I'm linking gym and work together in the sense that you probably don't really know the lady beside you and not really engage beyond excuse me.

Ok we've all been in a nightclub to see 3 girls pile out the same toilet cubicle (you never notice them pile in) but that's really not something you do beyond your teens with a drink in you

I think it's the hill they've all decided to die on, and I'm hoping the verdict/report from the tribunal will bury them all under said hill. 😁

I once got invited to join a threesome in a nightclub toilet back when I was young and beautiful with really sexy chromosomes.

😂
Sounds like he was over-due a nap.

I re-read his testimony a few days ago and thought to myself, if he is prepared to say those crazy things in a court, with media and public looking on, then there's nothing Sandie could have said to make him agree that he should leave the changing room to give her privacy from the male gaze. She was up against a brick wall of pure fantasy and her logic can't break it down.

However, his tears and rage that followed shows he knows what he is. It's just that no one is allowed to say it out loud.

@JazzyContemporaneousNotes

How about oat and banana pancakes?

Equal quantities, plus water / oat milk to liquify.

Fry in 10cm dollops.

Serve with fruit and maple syrup.

(And Italy have just scored!)

When is this thing supposed to end? cos I honestly cant see fitting all these witnesses in by the end of the week..

On reflection, I think the right word is simply corruption. I remember Graham Linehan, when he used to do the fabulous ' The Mess we're in' podcasts, commenting that this ideology made it impossible for institutions to do their jobs properly. So you have journalists reporting violent men as ' women', politicians saying stupid things like, men can grow cervixes, judges telling victims of make violence in court that they have to call their attacker
' she', teachers teaching that There Are 100 genders etc and now we have experienced DOCTORS saying they don't know what sex they are and how a baby is sexed at birth. It's utter nonsense and tbh I will NEVER understand why so many seemingly educated pp have gone along with it. Never...