NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

I have tried to ignore but am now just scrolling past so much that I am missing the useful posts too. I give up!

well that is even more amusing

Women don't merit special attention, of course.

The special women, the ones with cocks, are the ones who need pandering to.

That’s exactly what that poster wants!

I found the explanations about emails and disappeared emails really interesting today. Such shennanigans.

Made me laugh

So in that case, how can DU claim he was a biological female. Are you implying he was lying????

Yes, the gender identity line seems to have gone. I wonder who changed it and whether they've been following these threads.

But we can define sex and we have multiple ways to test for it.

All the doctors in this tribunal have done is lie and embarrass themselves.

Again, HTH.

Are we being treated to examples of Study Asks Men Who Say They Feel Like Women Whether They Feel Like Women, Gets Answer "Yes'?

😁

I've made that same point somewhere else on this, or the last, thread - that her demeanour may have changed because she heard that poor Beth had been misrepresenting the content of their cosy convos. KS got patriarched, despite her sucking up.

We have various ways of testing various different components of sex.

The Drs haven't lied, they've been very honest. whether they have embarrassed themselves is a matter of subjective opinion of course.

I really dont understand how seemingly intelligent well educated women fall for this stuff 🤔

Archive from 19th July

' What does Intersex mean? 
This is a gender identity.'

https://archive.ph/Ns0IN

Hello, NHS Fife! Anything else you want cleared up? Plenty women here happy to keep you right if you're confused about any other basic facets of reality.

If it's from this website and it's the same source as has been discussed before, it has been changed. The archive post posted by a pp seems to match the website -

https://www.nhsfife.org/services/all-services/sexual-health/lgbtqiplus/

They've lied.

Upton knows his sex is male.

KS is perfectly capable of correctly sexing a patient in A&E even if they are unconscious or lying about their sex, despite not being an 'expert.'

Ben Cooper to Mark Plant. It would be unkind of me to ask how it’s all panned out.
MP: No comment.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?reply=115927702&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

The Herald has been looking further into the bundle.
From KS’ witness statement:

“She added: “I identified that there are separate toilets within the changing rooms, also unisex toilets outwith the male and female changing rooms that she was welcome to use as well but she was comfortable using the female changing room.”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25333777.key-points-sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-employment-tribunal/ www.heraldscotland.com/news/25333777.key-points-sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-employment-tribunal/]]]]

They’ve definitely been on Mumsnet!

It doesn’t help that time with the witnesses starts so late, finishes so early and is often interrupted by JR seemingly answering for the witness/giving her own slant. I’m surprised the Judge has tolerated so much of the latter TBH. Maybe he’s put his foot down if she’s started behaving.

So as make and female patients need different clinical treatments, drug dosages and sometimes present with different symptoms I e heart attacks, how do these doctors know whether they’re treating a male or female patient?

I don't want to go into details, but I hope it's somewhat reassuring that in the one instance within the last decade in which I've identified a possible DSD in a baby (only the second in almost 40 years of medical practice, most of it in relevant specialties) the specialist team were meticulous in all aspects of the care of the family and not at all bogged down with airy-fairy hand-waving about "gender identity".

How strange. I'm still getting the previous one - from googling NHS Fife intersex. Oh well, that's good it's changed.

Anyone else admire Tandora's dogged determination to maintain the misbelief that TWAW? I'm all for debate but when there is colossal evidence to disprove every bit of "science" s/he mentions it takes a huge amount of chutzpah to keep going. I appreciate the respectful nature of comments on both sides though, hate it when either side resorts to mud slinging.