NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

Agree with you 100%

And would add that some of us are hearing impaired and sometimes just don't hear someone trying to start a chat. And don't want to chat anyway because, if you're hearing impaired, you have to stop-what-you're-doing to give your attention to the chat.

We don't wear badges either.

Toilets? Sod the toilets how do they know whether a person with acute abdomen pain needs a pregnancy test!!
Seriously missing an ectopic pregnancy or someone with a concealed pregnancy is potentially fatal.

I find he is getting less accurate. I'm sure it was NC who said they don't wear badges.

I feel like we are talking about sexing humans like we are sexing chickens or something.. the whole thing is so ridiculous 😂

It has been edited today. They've also removed the bit about ovaries and chromosomes. Can't be bothered to read the rest of their drivel for any other changes.
Oh and still saying the quiet part out loud about being trans and straight means being attracted to the same 'gender'. Old version attached
archive.ph/706yG

By saying "you can't prove that" Kate Searle actually lost control of herself.

It's a very revealing thing to say, and quite the lashing out. All her emails were lashing out at Sandie, and her repetition of kindness and compassion statements is just empty words.

She was still lashing out later on as we heard yesterday by dragging in nasty gossip about isms and phobias to try and keep the suspension going.

She's a bull in a china shop.

She's caused her nasty gang a lot of problems by ring leading them into this mess.

She's going to get a slating in the judgment. I doubt she has any ability for self reflection however. Any normal person would arrive tomorrow full of apologies for overstepping and getting it wrong. Not this woman, she's incapable of understanding the harm she's causing and has no self control.

I'm still struggling to understand, and have been struggling to understand since February how an organisation as large as the NHS doesn't have IT experts who trawl the emails of witnesses to make sure nothing is missed for the Tribunal. Is that what other large organisations do? Why would you leave it to individuals who (being charitable) might not be computer savvy?

Oh yes it very much has. Now it says:

What does intersex mean?

This means someone who was born with male and female sexual organs.
This can mean internal organs.
This can mean external organs - such as genitals.
This can mean both internal and external organs.
Being intersex has nothing to do with who you find attractive.
You can be intersex and straight (attracted to the same gender), or gay, or lesbian, or queer, or many other identities.

Oh i know how fantastic docs and nurses can be it’s just you think sometimes what if? And its scary but i am confident most people dont actually believe what they are saying so i can believe this family received the best care and support and i have often thought the UK is kinda the best place to be born with a DSD since our docs are so good and they consult with the leading people in Europe!

If this hasn't been posted yet -

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-fife-bosses-accused-deliberately-35599150

And if the birthing petson doesn't speak English, you'd have to just walk away, because misgendering them would be literally genocide.

Because they don't want to! Far better to lie/obfuscate and hope to not be found out, then blame amateurs, than to hand it all over on day one.

There is no way she can admit that she's erred. That would shatter the myth of being on teh Right Side of History.

It's not even a personal thing - were she to admit that Sandie Peggie - a lowly, run-of-the-mill woman - were worthy of respect and compassion, she'd be forced to see her as human, and with that, the whole edifice of bullshit would come cascading down, and half her worldview with it.

I’d rather discuss the case in hand and celery soup.

Thanks for another fabulous day of Fifer insight and GC companionship, all 😘

My entire NHS adjacent office has been riveted (even to the 'Let Them Speak' derail examples that echo so much of the pish we've collectively encountered in NHS workplaces.) Every contribution shines more light, not less. Glad to be here for it!

Apologies if this has been asked already - are there any legally minded people here who can comment on the seriousness of Dr KS withholding emails from the tribunal and/or colluding with other people to conceal emails? Does contempt of court apply in tribunals?
I ask because if she is found to be unreliable in court I would think that seriously undermines her integrity as a consultant and possibly should be reported to the GMC.

I read the headline and thought it was the BBC nearly fell off my chair 🤣

Isn't it just?

Mind you chickens might have seven genders but we'd never know because we don't speak chicken and we 'can't prove it'.

I'm catching up so I expect this will have been answered - but it was in Maya Forstater's tribunal when one of the witnesses (who one suspected had tried to reign in the madness, although not hard enough) said that he had emailed to suggest that they ought to be wary of reputational damage to CGD. 😁

It might seem to start late and finish early but there is work they are doing outwith the hearing. After 4 they don’t finish. J will be reviewing his notes and reviewing orders and matters of procedure and all sorts of admin. The legal teams need to review and prepare etc etc. the fact that there are so many issues needing dealt with in the morning can be laid squarely at the door of NHS Fife.

Oh, thank you! Much appreciated.💐

NHSFife and the University of St Andrews have signed up to a special partnership, announced in July this year as follows: “NHS Fife has officially become the first Health Board in more than 50 years to be formally granted University Health Board status, in partnership with the University of St Andrews, in recognition of its outstanding commitment to education, research, and innovation.” As it’s now a University Health Board maybe some of the professors could help them out with the nonsense NHSFife put on their website about intersex etc etc? After all they’re used to marking student essays and this isn’t anywhere near undergraduate level drivel.

😂😂🤣 i sometimes wonder if we live in reality anymore!!

That's right. And the logic of Semmelweiss's colleagues was quite literally "How can the hands of a gentleman soil a woman?!?"
This, despite the fact that they would start their rounds in the morgue, where, no doubt, there were interesting cases, as opposed to boring women giving birth.....
The more one looks into it, the more amazing it is what passes for "logic" among the patriarchate.

Nice outwith usage

👍