NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #37

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.
Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36

Someone she'd shared the workplace with for 9 years, too! I wonder if SP had failed to show KS due deference at any point, and BU provided the payback.moment.

So do we think that they included the email in the bundle (or not, maybe it's been disclosed separately and I've missed that) and they just didn't realise that NC was going to put 2 and 2 together and realise it was the initial email in a chain?

Edited to add, or was it omitted entirely and this is the not fully disclosed aspect?

Edited again, read your OP properly. Sorry!

Don't worry most of us can comprehend that a difference in sexual development is so called because it is a divergence from the usual developmental path rather than a different completely separate path.

Every single doctor that has been stuck off or imprisoned was once bound by the GMC code of conduct.
So I'll take anyone declaring 'trust me I'm a doctor, because I'm morally, legally and ethically prevented from lying or any sort of wrongdoing' with a pinch of salt.

I find the deliberate over complication worrying.

Instead of clarifying the difference between the definition of sex (binary) and the situations where this might be difficult to determine (DSDs), they suggest it is an unknowable mystery.

I can't understand why anyone would think this is good practice.

Still no reason to enter with your nonsensical statements on sex that you’ve spammed these boards with many times over.

Your misogyny and ‘trans women (men) will
come before women in every circumstance’ stance is nauseating and will rear its ugly head before long. Please, have a day off.

Regarding the new attention being shown to this thread, we all need to brush up on our folklore:

less macho is not less male

I've really enjoyed being part of this community of women. Feeling like I need to take a break for now though.

Im only at, 5.10 of this thread but thought I'd ask, so forgive me if it's been asked.

Does anyone else think the BMA might be re-thinking their Trans policy as this is making Doctors look stupid, and cause people to loose faith in the medical profession?

i still can’t get over the ‘i dont think you can prove…’ what was she thinking.. she must know how devious that sounds i mean she cant be a complete idiot right??

I'm in a team of 3. Of whom I know 2 of us are sane but neither would put our heads over the parapet having been treated extremely badly by NHS management in the past. The GPs I know are also all sane but have the same policy of keep your head down.

And the third is sane on absolutely every issue bar this - has totally swallowed the 'most oppressed people' line despite us working with deprived and excluded groups all the time.

No I know you aren't trying. Cos it's a rather crap attempt.

But its definitely a technique to shut out less educated people who are blinded by this nonsense.

Am new to this so don't want to overstep any mark, but are we allowed to ask Tandora in very broad terms what her day job is (I say her but that might be an assumption I should not make)? I am just wondering if it's lab research type, academic, clinical setting, therapist, autodidact? I agree the interventions are not on point in context but just interested.

The page has changed today though, the one I read this morning said intersex was a gender identity, I'm sure of it

And gay men, in my experience, are the complete opposite, empathetic, caring and kind.

Good call. I do it too. Feet up and watch something silly on the telly and thanks for all that you do.

Can you explain why it sounds devious to you?

Interesting fact in a Times comments section on an article about SNP authoritarianism and inadequacy:
“……. after being Presiding Officer - former SNP MSP Tricia Marwick (aunt of disgraced former SNP MSP Natalie McGarry) went on to become chair of NHS Fife from 2016 to 2020.”
Marwick was before the DU/SP debacle but I think shows how our SNP politicians have been instrumental in crapping their particular brand of progressive idiocies everywhere within reach. Worth googling Natalie McGarry if you want to see the calibre of politicians gifted to the long suffering Scottish electorate. Embezzling from a food bank FFS.

Always worth taking a break. But I hope you do stay - have enjoyed your posts.
If it's frustration at the serial derailers - they usually pop up when there's a need to divert attention from the reality of some car crash incident.
And my, what a car crash we're witnessing at the moment. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious for SP and of course so serious that qualified and allegedly ethical medics are in the grips of this conspiracy theory about sex change and women existing only to validate men and their fetishes.

Do you have a citation for this theory?

Time for me to make the kids some dinner so I'll assume that the resounding silence from @Tandora means she doesn't think that even 'nice' females deserve single sex spaces. It doesn't really matter the Sandie is a possibly, allegedly, maybe by third hand accounts not always nice because it's impossible to be good enough to deserve dignity and privacy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3le58k858o

This might have been posted already, but I am stunned at how the BBC are reporting this case. Anybody would be forgiven for thinking SP is the defendant, and they’ve very much buried the lede sticking “possible evidence tampering” way down at the bottom.

Well just generally if you say in any court case as a witness ‘I dont think you can prove that’ immediately sounds like there is something to prove but you have attempted to cover it up 🤷‍♀️

You do you. I'm here to talk about the tribunal and that's all I'm going to talk about.