NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

Also said that DU reacted better than she expected, which is rather telling...

No, she isn't. Transwomen are not allowed to play in women's teams in any contact form of the game. They can only join women for non-contact versions such as touch rugby.

The issue there isnt finding lack of accuracy, or the article's slanted biased account, its getting changes to stick against reversion by the gatekeepers.

I kind of wish NC had got CM to clarify her "changing with trans players" comment - transmen or transwomen/ if transwomen what are the rules of engagement on the field.

I think it's because she isn't a legally trained person and the law on SSS isn't relevant to her job. The discussion over the law will come in submissions at the end.

It is a disadvantage to have to walk to the other end of the hospital (through lots of fire doors, some with swipe card control) and would mean being treated differently from other women.

@Jerabilis agreed as a medic and a rugby player she knows the biological reality and risks she's exposing (probably unknowingly) to other female players. It's absolutely disgraceful.

Bit disappointed NC didn't push. Possibly she's got what she wanted / wouldn't be helpful.

So that’s ok, so any woman, like .Sandie , who is experiencing a sudden unexpected and very heavy flooding of menstrual blood can just wander along in full view of other staff, visitors and patients to those far away single sex cubicles where there is unlikely to be suitable spare clothing available, and where they cannot access their own belongings like wipes or clean underwear from their lockers, and where , at midnight, they can be absolutely sure that no random A and E patients have accidentally wandered for their own possibly nefarious reasons.

Just checked as World Rugby has and the RFU (England) b7t wasn't sure re: Scottish RU but they did in January '23.

She might be completely missing the point and talking about TIFs

I wish NC had asked her what sex her trans teammates were.

Very much assuming that her team are following the rules...

Another poster also raised the possibility that the teammates are trans men rather than TW...

Irrelevant to the subject but JR really grates on me. I know she's middle upper class but it sounds to me like she puts on a 'telephone voice' and speaks to certain witnesses as though they are hard of hearing or 5 years old

"It's not how I have chosen to think" so it is not true.

Quite a good witness, but has revealed inconsistencies and incoherence in practice.......but at least ackowledges that matters now need to be thought about more thoroughly.

Charlotte Myles' response to being asked if she is female makes me think the poor lassie's jacket must now be hingin' on a very shoogly peg down at Tonto Towers, AKA NHS Fife.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I can't make up my mind. 🤪

She might be playing rugby with transmen.

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic I don't think there were lockers in these "other" rooms so it wouldn't have helped anyway getting her period and needing to get stuff. Or loos. Part of her objection was she didn't want to see Dr. Upton undressing either.

'Difficult conversation'

Difficult because Upton had expected Sandie to be dismissed summarily, presumably, going off his previous conversations with the spiteful tittletattlers.

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Of course they do, remember it was Women for Scotland who brought the case to SC.

3 ordinary women who met here on MN

JR really pushing the racist comments

JR Shit stirring

I told you she is a witch, why didn't you burn her?

from Herald
3:25pm
Labour politicians Claire Baker and Melanie Ward met with Sandie Peggie this morning.
Ms Ward, the MP for Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy, says her constituents "are rapidly losing faith in the leadership of NHS Fife."

I wonder if CM and co think feathers McGraw is a real chicken

One thing NC has established is that Lottie is not gender critical herself, so her treatment of SP was not motivated by sympathy arising from her beliefs - unlike the way DU was supported in an ideological way.