NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

It's long been a strategy of TRAs to accuse anyone who doesn't accept the dogma of being absolutely everything under the sun. Far right, Nazi, racist, homophobic... It's desperate mud slinging in the hope that if you throw enough then something will stick. It's dishonest exploitative, hysterical, desperate and just downright shitty, which is why it suits those people so well.

After a while, all sensible and honest people see it for what it is and it starts showing up the people doing the slinging. She's racist, she's homophobic, she kicks puppies, she eats babies, she wears socks with sandals. It's just angry lunatic ramblings and it won't work any more.

I'm at the grrrrhhhhhhh stage of the day.

I can feel my blood pressure raising.

Male or female-bodied trans rugby players? It makes quite a difference when it comes to changing rooms, CM…

From TT

CM: Not sure - my understanding was, ppl get to use the single-sex space they identify with, I may not know enough about this?
NC: Not asking about the law - that's for me and JR - am asking you: none of those 200 women now had guarantee of single-sex space?
CM: Well if there's only one objection - ppl should be able to use room they identify with.
NC: You say, if only 1 person complaining it isn't a problem. Do you accept that a large proportion of women are sexual abuse survivors?
CM: Yes
NC: And some women from religious backgrounds have particular modesty requirements re opposite sex? Can't use the room?

Big Sond : sake min, here comes Pete's work bits clompin doon my lobby carpet

NC taking the shine off CM's halo a bit by pressing her about removing the right for approx 200 women to have Single sex CR to facilitate one DrU.
CM flailing a bit with well there was only one objection, people can ID as they choose etc.

Bring back pete! Bring back pete!

I thought transwomen had been banned from UK rugby some time ago?

I'm really hoping that the penny is starting to drop with CM.

CM: Yes - but hospital does have other facilities, single cubicles, some further away yes but exist

i.e. places that the one and only DrU could have used!

Please, please, NC; please ask her about the equality act guidance she was using.

A transgender team mate is different because it is someone she knows well.

It's not the same as opening up a staff changing room to any self identified trans "woman".

Also. Unlike Sandie and Dr. Upton you aren't going to be on your own at midnight.

On another side, absolutely should not have transwomen playing any sort of contact rugby (which I dabbled in at uni).

Womens rugby is dangerous enough, it isn't safe yet alone fair. Of course she's on a team with then so doesn't need to worry 🙄

There are alternatives, a gay mens team would likely be welcoming of a trans woman or there are mixed touch/tag team.

How many objections would it take, I wonder?

If she plays women's rugby and trans men are using the CR she won't have had the personal experience of a man who says he's a woman changing in her room.

I don't think she's thought it through very far and that's what NC is pursuing now.

from herald
3:15pm
Ms Myles said she is aware that some women will be uncomfortable changing in front of people who identify as transgender.
But she said there are facilities within the hospital that can be used as an alternative, albeit far away from the emergency department.

Presumably when CM is sharing changing rooms with trans rugby players it is because she has chosen to do so of her own free will, and also because at the time of changing with trans rugby players she is not flooding and dripping with blood from an unexpected and very heavy period.

They're still convinced that DU had the legal right to use the female CR aren't they? Have none of them read the SC decision?

CM is coming across as all right. The first decent witness they've called

Hmmm I don't think it is. She sees DU as a female colleague

I **ing hate this phrase 'identify as', as if that justifies a complete change in societal workings.

I got kicked out at break and now in WFTVTJ hell

NC: So if a woman does have a reason for particularly wanting a single sex space? The policy was, she must lose the space, and go elsewhere?
CM: Management shd find a solution that works for everyone. Follow policy, legislation, do the best we can.

I bet CM can hear how feeble this sounds, but has to plough on..
Her previous stout-hearted 'I made my decision' confidence has disappeared when it comes to single sex spaces.

And not on her own with them at midnight so any risk is far lower.

She needs a lesson from Pete the Plumber

All this is telling me is that there is no cultural chance in NHS Fife and that they are still completely TWAW and therefore should be treated as female for all purposes. It's like the SC never happened.

Change, not chance