NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

Yes, I'm not arguing that it is a good line of defence! I think it is, perhaps, her only option at this point.

The fuckwits didn't realise how much they would look like fuckwits, so didn't realise that CM wouldn't look like a fuckwit, whilst also making them look like fuckwits.

That defence doesn't fly. Fife is responsible for the actions of its staff. They cannot save the organisation by throwing KS, ED, IB or anyone else under the bus.

Is anyone else getting exceedingly irritated with this witness talking in clichés??
Can't she string a self- composed sentence together?
Is this the result of poor modern education?

Not odd at all. On the contrary, she's the first good witness they've called - followed process, took statements from both sides, aimed to end suspension as fast as possible, put decisions in writing promptly, proposed and accepted compromises. This is what they should have been doing right the way through.

Unfortunately, it does rather show up the rest of them.

Read the room, love.

A chimney stack is also a 'Lumb' in Yorkshire

I really don't think Fife are trying to take the 'he was on a frolic of his own' line.

Edited to clarify the complete dog's breakfast I made of the pronouns.

Or just doing her actual job. Which was to be neutral and assess actual facts.

I'm having problems with creating a draft of a new thread so I'm going to start one super-early now so that I'm not trying and failing to create one at the last minute.

BUT THERE WILL BE A STRICT BAN AGAINST ANYONE DOING SNEAKY EARLY POSTING THERE

Yes, there is a point at which an employee's behaviour is sufficiently far away from their employment responsibilities that their employer is not responsible. However, all the people at Fife were clearly acting as employees, so Fife is definitely liable for their actions.

Ooh. Maybe CM not as neutral as we thought. NC doing her stuff, here.

She's been the first Fife witness who wasn't/isn't emoting all over the place and seems to have actually tried to do her job and follow proper procedure. Her testimony is quite starkly showing up the nonsense of other Fife witnesses, and will certainly be an interesting ( ) counterpoint to whatever Kate Searle comes out with...

from herald
2:55pm
Ms Myles said she was not aware of any other staff members expressing concerns about Dr Upton's use of the female changing rooms.
Ms Cunningham asks whether it could be understood why no one else complained, given what has happened to Sandie Peggie as a result.
Ms Myles responds that she cannot comment on this. She was not part of the early discussions but said it is right that the workplace has policies for treating everyone fairly.

'Equality Act Guidance' Hmmmmm, What was that then and where did she get it from?

Bold capitals is shouty and intimidating. Good job. We have been warned.

Your thread stewardship is much appreciated.

I had a job where I had to send out bills, the system insisted on a title for the person being billed. For blokes it was straightforward 'Mr'. For women I had to ask 'Miss' or 'Mrs'. Which annoyed me. So I asked 'Miss', 'Mrs', 'Dr', 'Rev', 'Captain', ..., which at least usually got a laugh. It's odd how many were hostile to 'Ms', so, though happy to use it, I rarely bothered asking and, thankfully, 'Mx' was virtually unheard of.

What

From TT

NC: The board has at various points laid much stress on the fact that no one but SP had complained re DU using the CR. Were you aware of any other unhappiness about it?
CM: No not aware
NC: Given what happened to SP when she did complain, can you think of a reason why nobody else might have complained?
CM: We needed to have policy about treating everyone fairly, human rights - when it comes to how SP was treated - I was not primarily involved in early stages

Fifer Translation : they bams ersed it right up

NC: YOu mentioned finding summary info on your desk. Can you explain more?
CM: Yes, just came in and found papers on my desk with an FYI note. Cd have been from my PA. I did ask HR but nobody was available so I did my own research, going into the review.
NC: A printout with a post-it on your desk. Can you remember how many pages?
CM: Just a couple of pages, basic info eg how long SP had been at the ED - bcs I'd never met her before. So very generic preparatory info
NC: A single document?
CM: Yes am pretty sure it was. Have not been able to find my copy.
NC: Do you know who wrote it?
CM: No
NC: Were you surprised by it?
CM: Not really - ppl do quite often leave papers for me.
NC: If it had been emailed you'd have a copy but I can imagine papers are easy to lose?
CM: Yes indeed - I did have it with me in the bundle for the mtg but I haven't been able to find later.

Well she could have scanned it in....I'd have saved an electronic copy as I'd feel that paper was deliberately provided so that I'd misplace it.

Yes mum.

Sits on hands

It is becoming very clear from the investigation outcome finding no evidence to CM’s evidence that, as we all suspected, the “incidents” had little to no substance to them. SPs claims of bullying are getting stronger.

mmm....sounds suspiciously like some of the gossip and bitch came from an anonymous document left on her desk, now disappeared (by accident on purpose?).
wierd that

Didn't think CM was the type to "lose" documents...

Lots of biased reporting in there indeed!