NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

It's interesting that CM said that she wanted the investigation wrapped up before SP returned to work to protect her. I think this hints that CM knew SP was at risk of a witch-hunt.

We've also had multiple posts from people agreeing that the side chat is distracting. Ironic or what!
(I like a squeeze of lemon juice in my potato salad mayo. With chilli flakes and sibwns)

I don't think I've seen this posted yet. The person who allegedly stated they wanted to make arrests at the tribunal if any misgenderings occurred has now written a complaint to the tribunal.

I'm sure it will be taken very seriously indeed.

bsky.app/profile/seenpoliceuk.bsky.social/post/3lug234sn7c2y

On the comment issue - I think the Judge has in effect given permission to discuss, say, how the witnesses look when giving evidence and also to, say, answer my question on abbreviation (and thank you to everyone who did). I'd also see it as being OK to post WTF did they really say that as long as you are not repeating many comments.

Anyone in doubt, say nowt 😀

@Waitwhat23 I think there was also a complaint on Site Stuff that the threads operate at all and therefore appear in the trending list

I wish people would spell "hearsay" correctly - I keep reading "heresy", which is arguably accurate (from a TI pov) but confusing.

Yep - what did the Rs call this witness?
Totally makes all the rest of the team look unfair and biased in their handling of the situation.

Interesting to see others picking up that CM was bit more skeptical about the scuttlebut that SP is a terrible person. I have to say in the flurry of posting and editing, that went a bit over my head. Thanks to all adding their views, especially those who have seen it live (commenting in breaks of course) rather than via TT.

It's precisely because Upton is a man and Peggie a woman that Tandora and the rest of them think Peggie should submit and Upton be sanctified. They know exactly which group of people the changing room is for and which group of people they want to give over to which others.

Emotive and one-sided nonsense is all they've ever had.

👇

CM -
'One sword at least thy rights shall guard/One faithful harp shall praise thee'

It's being typed in real time as it's spoken. I don't think many people could do it with absolutely no spelling errors or typos. The meaning is clear and that's what matters.

@Crikeyisthatthetime I saw a request yesterday for nauti to make a huge pronouncement on the thread at the actual start of the Tribunal as it so difficult to scroll through the nonsense thoughtful intelligent discussions.

This is likely to be because Sandie works part time and shifts. Leave including BH will be pro rated and built into SPs shift pattern.

Being suspended and on Special Leave impacts on what leave including BH she hasn’t taken.

What HR would have to do is manually work out her leave entitlement so she didn’t miss out.

It's aa latch in English

My view on the chatting is pragmatic. Trying to police the thread to fit one particular view of how it should be conducted will likely cause chaos and ill-feeling. We're better off with some people grinding their teeth over celery soup (which might cause the fibres-getting-in-the-gaps to be an even worse problem) and with everyone sort of rubbing along reasonably-ish.

It's a low bar, to be fair.

Maybe a last ditch attempt to make it look like not everyone at NHSF is utterly bonkers?

I mean, it's surely just damage limitation at this point...

Perhaps trying to make it look like it was done properly because one involved person behaved correctly?

This will be NC line of questioning I suspect.

If this witness is reasonable, she's useful for highlighting the unreasonable if that makes sense.

If she said there were x, y or z risks and then effectively overruled by various parties, you want to then know
a) what risks were identified
b) who was aware of those risks
c) who ignored those risks
d) who ultimately overruled this witness during a suspension process and why
e) did they actually have the authority to do this or did they force the issue in someway.

It should be Hear'Say.

Like this?

Someone doesn't know what "conflict of interest" means.

Pure and simple.

This was March wasn't it? Leave hours reset at the end of the month, with usually only 5 days carry over allowed. She may have had more left than she could carry to April.