NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

Is this DU under the bus??

JR Oversight of yr interactions for a time mentioned.
CM Were some concerns raised- patient safety - later. I challenged these and asked whether documented and escalated. I felt it was heresay but to prevent further allegations I felt havng a senior was important for her

I agree.
I got the initial.kmpression she was.intentionally putting it out there that they primed her that SP was an all-the-isms witch. That she wants the trubunal to hear that.

It’s highly likely she would not get nightshift or unsocial hours payments impacting take home pay and her pension.

.

So far, over the course of the threads, there have been demands to -

• Have a simultaneous thread running at the same with just TT posts as people found it otherwise too distracting
• for the posts posted here from TT to be 'unadulterated' as some people find the (funny) commentary distracting
• for there to be no chat at all on these threads between February and now.
• no other chat allowed, even when it was chat while we were waiting for the tribunal to start - the delay which would have been perfectly possible to verify from either other sources or by flicking to the end of the thread and starting from there.

And others I can't remember off the top of my head.

If the argument is that it's making the thread run through too quickly, the same could be said of much of the seemingly relevant chat (duplications, cross posts etc) or anything veering from what is currently happening.

Ditto. I feel in fine company for this new decade of my existence!

TT's Morning Tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1947205010908946929.html

I am surprised at the lack of pressure to ensure that she returned to work quickly.

Two things strike me:

1. CM is very clear on PCs - no confusion about gender ID, self ID, etc, she refers to gender reassignment. She's done (some) homework on the whole thing. When she did it would be interesting to know.
2. The repeated misgendering of DU in court stems IMO from NC's stating at the outset that she would not use preferred pronouns. And it's a perfect demonstration that it has to be "no debate", because the minute you allow the trans narrative to be questioned, cracks start to appear and the whole edifice is in danger of falling.

Felt the allegations were here say.. The good doctor wont like that!!

I’m interested to see how NC plays this. Does she make CM look like another idiot who is prejudiced against Sandie. Or does she make her seem a nice person who was doing her best for Sandie and get her to admit that she thinks that all the others were awful?

Not a good morning for the respondents - CM has basically underscored for the panel that the pressure to suspend SP came from unsubstantiated gossip and other undocumented sources.

Thought innocent until proven guilty would apply

Today's evidence is so not helping NHS Fife. I had to remind myself she's being questioned by her own side. She's highlighting so many fuck ups that were going on around her.

I like heresay - a mixture of heresy and hearsay!

We need a bit of levity or we would all be dying of high blood pressure.

These threads are not a paid for service where you can police what is talked about or make annoying requests.

If Nauti is getting tired of posting these threads, she knows one of us would step in and continue as has happened on previous Tribunal threads.

Total appears to be 4, The original & 2 revisions Friday, then 1 today.

The archiving sites archive on demand, not automatically, & people are mistaking further archive copies with actual updates.

Jack Appleby posted diffs on Friday which show the changes @j4ppleby
Jul 19
As far as I can see NHS Fife updated their statement twice. You can see the doc differences here:
First diff: diffchecker.com/LptGkcUZ/
Second diff: diffchecker.com/aaNHQU3U/

She will make CM look like what she is a professional who is trying to do her best and understands there are two people involved and policies to follow. However, she is also tied by policies she didn’t write working in a stonewall captured organisation.

Tandora · Today 09:57

My heart just breaks for Dr Upton and I'm wishing her all the best.

Mine too. The misgendering of Dr Upton by NHS Fife witnesses is really quite something to behold.

💔💔💔

Well, overall that was a good first session for SP. Will CM be the only witness today I wonder?

Thanks for the Dino pics. .personally I find them a bit too cute. Needing bigger claws perhaps . We are really scary aren’t we?

Yes, I'm confused about the suggestion re: using public holiday hours so she didn't lose them.

Bank hol hours are usually rolled into total annual leave hours, meaning for a nurse working shifts you work eg Christmas, and have two days to take another time. For part time workers the hours are pro-rata. Which is a problem for me as I work in a Monday - Friday department, and my BH's are calculated as 4 hours, so I have to be careful not to end up working MORE hours to make up for the BH which I had to take as the department was closed on the Monday iyswim. Anyway I digress. But I remain confused about how the BH hours related to Sandie's suspension.

It just goes to show everyone knows who is a man or woman, at the end of the day. No matter how much of an ally they might be, they all know.

That is what I assumed, and I think from the evidence SP often worked unsocial hours.

So it seems likely that staff at NHS Fife managed to both cause SP hardship and waste thousands by continuing to pay her a basic salary when she wasn't working.

Briefly in the break - first impressions of today's witness:

• Hooray - someone who is able to differentiate between facts and feelings
• Someone who wanted to be impartial
• Someone who knows what the 9 PCs from the EA are!?! (rare person indeed in the NHS apparently!)
• Ignored heresay about SP being "an all-the-isms" bigot
• Looked for evidence of wrong doing (and found it didn't exist)
• Spoke to SP and got her side of the story/examples of how she had treated other trans patients well/just as any other patients in the past.
• Was dismayed by her colleagues undermining her attempts to get SP back to work and treated fairly
• But was aware that legal or an ET was in the offing so was potentially in full arse-protection mode rather than everday laissez faire?

For the first time I feel relieved that someone in this story was doing their job