NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #34

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-sil
ence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33

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Gender reassignment

Is SP paid or unpaid during this time?

Did Upton get a contract extension then? I thought in Jan he only had 4 shifts left, so how are they still needing to separate them in March??

The Protected Characteristic they were focussing on - Gender Reassignment

everyone can distinguish a fox from a sheep ,even when they are intentionally herded together by design.

GR referring to PC of gender reassignment in the Equality Act

GR is Gender Reassignment

That’s not what I said.

CM was saying SP calling DrU a man at work was not a breach of FoE.

Ten min break

@NImumconfused Possibly because DU was on sick leave? Not 100% though.

Like this?

I don’t understand it either. Need a timeline

My impression of LM is that she is a more open and less guarded witness than previous ones - so far at least. She hasn't come across, to me at least, as ideologically committed.

I just had a look - there is now no mention of Sex Matters whatsoever. Am sure last version still had a weird “we’re not blaming Sex Matters” caveat in Para 2 ish.

From TT

Cm It was trying to maintain her prev shift pattern if possible. Hard to work around all the shift patterns
JR U refer to opposite shift to DU?
CM Drs rotas are far more complicated and are pre-populated. They are given hrs they ahve to do so was limited what we cld change for him. there's more flexibility in nurses rota

Fifer : if that's no a typo, first misgendering has occurred. Trans Reddit Emotional Damage incoming.

JR Email of 20 Mar to ED saying not heard from SP
(CM) Yes
JR Then from ED to you. and then a reply from SP saying she didnt want to work days.
CM When I eventually read it I felt we were going backwards. I explained it wasnt punative
JR Why suggestion to work days?
MC The supporting nurses tend to work day shifts and these nurses were already aware - so other sr nurses didnt need to get involved
JR You write to SP on Mar 28th. You ref the Sx being reinstated to further explore matters
CM That was to explore shift patterns.
JR You say the you and the RCN rep felt returns to day was approp. How did u jnow
CM We'd discussed this. I'd taken advice.
JR You ref the changing facilities. What input were u looking for from estates and facilities?
CM I was looking at how we cld facilitate them both w/out breaking the EA or any of their rights. Belinda Morgan is the Estates Manager
JR How long were day shifts to last?
CM 4 weeks. Was for senior oversight for support
JR WHat level of seniority approp?
CM Band 6
CM Also a clin nurse manager at w/ends
JR Oversight of yr interactions for a time mentioned.
CM Were some concerns raised- patient safety - later. I challenged these and asked whether documented and escalated. I felt it was heresay but to prevent further allegations I felt

Fifer : she's careful no tae go that deep with the (noo debunked but she's no meant tae ken) "patient safety concerns" but wasnae shy to mention hoo Wee Sondie's supposedly a gay-hatin racist bam earlier. Curious.

Thank goodness. Im stuck on sleeve island of this jacket im crocheting and might be able to get a couple of rounds done.

I think CM has shot herself in the foot by stating they have to treat them as the sex they identify as. Reasonable as she is coming across I am looking forward to the cross examination.

Can anyone explain the pay implications for being suspended/put on special leave?

Speaking of ideologically committed, I just read that Courier article and noticed Carol Potter has a progress flag on her lanyard.

Yes, and the fact she appears that way doesn't seem to help the respondents case at all, it only highlights how bad everyone else acted.

We have also filled a few pages answering questions that have already been replied to multiple times and explaining things to people who have spent less time in the weeds. We are trying to be helpful and are glad to have new people join us. Perhaps it would be OK for us to have a little fun along the way?

From TT
CM Were some concerns raised- patient safety - later. I challenged these and asked whether documented and escalated. I felt it was heresay but to prevent further allegations I felt havng a senior was important for her
JR What did u mean by it being a sensitive Ix?
CM I wanted the Ix to be completed before her full return. It was both a protective measure towards her and to prevent her saying anything inappropriate.
JR Can we have a break?
Big Sond : aye, ma bridie will need warmed up by noo!

According to TT we have another "him"

The poor ickle doctor is going to have to employ a personal car escorter where ever he goes at this rate!

Special leave is fully paid.

I assume suspension is the same but I'm not 100% on that.

Interesting. CM has said patient safety concerns were raised when they were planning to bring her back to the workplace. But that she challenged these asking if they had been documented.

And we all know the answer to that