NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

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Interesting, Marmelise was a word I heard my 'English' mum use growing up. That makes sense as her grandparents were Irish/Scottish she would always said "the Polis" instead of police which is Scots Gaelic

Smacks of absolute desperation the statement and yet another action that reflects badly on NHS fife

I agree with others, I'm not sure SP could return to her job around these people, and i imagine it's still almost impossible for nurses and other female staff still working there to raise any concerns in the culture that exists.

I used to do similar courgette 'meatballs', also with gram flour, but deep fried like felafel. From Madhur Jaffrey, I tihnk.

We really really need that laugh emoji back! 😂

The statement is absolute guff and serves no purpose - what is the action point that is supposed to come from it?

I suppose it could be because various High Heidyins have been being pressured to settle by even Higher Heidyins in Holyrood and/or Westminster and they needed to get the point out there that it's not up to them. Fair enough. But the rest of it is absolutely risible and mostly demonstrably untrue.

It turns out that Jane Russell was elevated to KC only a few months ago:

https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/barrister-gallops-through-london-celebrate-becoming-kc

Neil Gray will be too busy at the fitba this weekend ⚽

Jist a ginormous loddie wi size 13 ballet flats on, stottin aboot the place.

Thank you Bez for this gem of a sentence. 😁.

Picturing a long lanky 'loddie' skipping around in his dainty size 13 ballet pumps 😅

I imagine that whoever authorised the statement is now getting the reaction that a child would expect if their misbehaviour got the whole class landed in detention.

Noone on the Fife Board is getting a weekend off now. Not even a Friday evening off. Everyone must remain sober and on-task and await further instructions.

I think they have added this to the original

To be clear NHS Fife is not seeking to suggest that anyone involved with Sex Matters have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned above.

Someone's had a word.

This is pure demonstrated those rules… is it narcissist prayer or misogynist prayer?

I didn’t do it.
If I did, it wasn’t that bad,
she made me etc.

Writ large across the sky- there was no problem until those bloody women started making a fuss. We did nothing wrong. They are making a FoS about nothing. Their behaviour is appalling and makes us all look bad.
Those fucking women are showing us up, someone stop them talking.

Wow, I’m so regretting not applying for permission to watch. I didn’t as I knew I’d get nothing else done but this is so nuts I’m getting nothing else done.

Deary me, just when you thought this whole shower couldn't get any more batshit - what were they thinking with that statement? <shakes head ruefully>

Thanks for all the commentary, TT transcriptions and humour! From an appreciative lurker who's not done quite as much work this week as I should have done!

In Bilfawst we would sometimes say polis, but more often they were the peelers. Which used to be common in England too, but seems to have died out.

Was it a clumsy attempt to steer the press to stay away from digging in to the witnesses so far? Is it possible that in view of the alleged threats of violence the remainder of the tribunal could be heard in private? I hope not.

Was it a clumsy attempt to steer the press to stay away from digging in to the witnesses so far? Is it possible that in view of the alleged threats of violence the remainder of the tribunal could be heard in private? I hope not.

I’m seething at the entitlement and injustice of it all

Also thinking about the threats. They have to be coming from general trolls and tras, surely? Like, we’re pretty much all members of CLAW right?

I can’t see how threats from people who are not campaigning for women’s rights can be seen as our fault, sandies fault, Sex Matters’ fault?!

Well well well.. what's that I hear? clippity clop clippity clop..it's the horses that have already left the stable, so no point in trying to bolt the door now, NHSF! We have the receipts..

Besides, we aren't stupid, we know the tactic of throwing mud around - SP is racist, DrU is a fragile flower, Sex Matters have been interfering with the course of justice - knowing that some of it will stick.

It will be helped to stick by whoever writes the headlines at BBC News online, as they will publish the mud, followed by 'tribunal hears'..

I thought so too at first but then as PPs pointed out, it's likely that every woman involved in this has been targeted by misogynists because it's been in the public eye so much.

Well spotted. Fife NHS are running around like headless chickens now.

C Elves stated that SP & team had been subjected to threats but had been told not to reveal it to the tribunal as that would be improper.

I liked the sideswipe at NHSF's statement revealing threats😏

Her only act was to state her belief—a belief grounded in biology and protected in law—that Upton, a male, should not be changing in a space designated for women.
That belief, said Curran, breached the NMC code.

woahhhhhh! Breaching the NMC code, seriously? I’m bound by the nmc code. I have to prioritise people, I have to practice effectively, I have to preserve safety, I have to promote professionalism and trust.

so which of the above is breached by not wanting to strip off in front of a man? Is Fife hospital suggesting that Peggie didn’t prioritise the male doctors wishes above her own feelings then she’s breached the code? Thats seriously bad! I mean where are we allowed to draw the line, or can a man do anything to us and we have to prioritise them?

Or are they saying she didn’t promote professionalism? Again her gender critical view is scientifically correct and backed by law. She didn’t stand outside the changing room screaming and shouting and waving a placard. She seems to have been very professional in how she handled the situation.

id like further questioning regarding how this muppet feels the Code was breached! Has Peggie been referred to the nmc? Because of her employer genuinely believes she has breached the Code then surely they have a responsibility to refer her. Obviously I hope they don’t and i don’t think they have. But if they haven’t it demonstrates what rubbish they are talking .

Aargh, for some infuriating unexplained reason, just as this latest bombshell dropped, this thread wouldn't accept any posts from me.

I don't suppose Fife are responsible but bloody hell, after that insane statement and JR's seizing on the opportunity to plant ideas about shutting down public access nothing would surprise me.

I think this is an attempted smear on NC as Counsel and that's why she passed over to Charlotte Elves to address the judge on it. Fife are trying to disrupt the administration of justice. It's utterly disgraceful.

Come on, this is Scotland.
John Swinney said on tv this week he had complete faith in nhs Fife!!