NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

Well the thing is, that might win them some plaudits from the BBC and the Grauniad and even the excitable kids on the Trans UK subreddit, but it seems like a strategy for winning stupid prizes from the tribunal.

I keep thinking of the FWS case - regular viewers of GB News wouldn't have been shocked by the judgment because they'd heard Helen Joyce explaining the issues, but people who get all their news from the BBC were like "what in holy hell is going on here?"

Thanks @BettyBooper for the c&p of Boswell's tweet.

Just WTF did the Comms department of NHS Fife think they were doing???

It reads like "A big boy dunnit and ran away"

Mick The Marmaliser was an Irish Diddyman in Ken Dodd's Diddy People..
The rest came from Knotty Ash* and worked in the Jam Butty Mines.

*No relation to Knotty Auty

But it still isn’t the fault of Sandie and her team if nasty people make threats- whoever they make them to!

Or are they blaming them for it being heard in public? Ok. That makes sense. Coming down from my cloud of rage!

i live in fife. And while I know there will be a budget for defending claims, it was announced in the press that the closest minor injuries unit is closing. Meaning for me I'm better going to Perth or Dundee for any injuries rather than go to one in Fife. The money wasted by Fife on this could have been much better spent.

Archived the update here (as archive.org requires a wait between versions) https://archive.ph/OCxq7

I've had to meet up with someone for lunch, come back, and it looks like I've missed some of the most chaotic afternoons imaginable! Might crack open a drink a play catch up on these threads as this looks utterly unbelievable! Someone just be working their reduced hours on a Friday and hit the send button when clocking off early. Crazy. Surprised? No. 😂

But they haven't retracted their statements that it's all the fault of Sex Matters that public opinion is against them, and if SM would just shut up nobody would know that Dr Upton is a man, or that they've fallen so hard at the feet of trans ideology that anyone who disagrees with them is to be hung out to dry.

I couldn’t understand the point of the statement, but it does seem plausible that it’s actually for a small and specific audience.

Perhaps tempers have been fraying.

I noticed that they also stated they can't settle only SP can withdraw the claim but they have neglected to state that the reason they can't settle (not that SP wants to) is because both NHSF and DU would need to agree to this.

They've squarely placed blame for the £220k spent so far on SP and not acknowledged that this is the consequence of their actions.

Struggling to keep up so apologies if this has been covered:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg98nwrqpdo

Indeed. Have they left the very dodgy
The claimant’s barrister is also chair of Sex Matters.
statement up?

It looks to me that this implies that NC being chair of SM is relevant in to this case, and because NHSF claim that
Sex Matters have been very active, making numerous statements which it would appear are aimed at steering public opinion in a way that NHS Fife as a public body clearly cannot.

that reads like an implied criticism of NCs neutrality, objectivity and, therefore, professionalism.

If that is the case - they won't know what hit them😁

Yeah - they can’t withdraw without throwing Dr U, who they have been supporting of course, under the bus and him suing them too

I don't really understand this latest throw of the dice but do we think NHSF are anticipating criminal proceedings following the ET?

Corporate bullying? If that is a thing?

BBC complaint link here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

And wasn't investigated

The judge did say something about needing to take advice/think on it as they're an Employment court not a criminal court so I think there could be anticipation of this.

Imagine if Ms Peggie had talked about how shaken & upset she was (given her history of sexual assault) to encounter a 6 foot man in her changing room, who had closed the door as he entered.

I imagine she would have been castigated as lacking in resilience ...

Or reported along the lines of "Oh women, always manipulating people in the workplace by crying"

I’m interested to know what they suggest SP should have done to resolve the situation instead of taking them to a tribunal.

From what I understand NHS Fife lawyers are still (bravely) planning to argue that the SC judgement only applies to the EA and doesn’t apply to changing rooms (KR said toilets, but am assuming she misspoke).

I think judge was talking about the threats which have been referred to the police.

They seem to be implying that a women's rights activist who is a barrister should somehow not be a barrister for someone asserting her rights as a woman. I can't follow this at all. Are they suggesting NC is biased? Yes of course she is. She's literally there to argue Sandie's case just like JR is there to argue Fife's (such as it is). Why on earth would it surprise or compromise anyone that a women's rights activist uses her skills to that end? NC's role at Sex Matters is public information.

I don't know, is this the kind of insanity you only understand if you don't know what sex you are? We're all mad here....

Big Sond isnae gettin the weekend aff either then

She's literally there to argue Sandie's case

And presumably, if she veers away from an objective, evidence-based application of the law, the Judge will pull her up. That's part of what judges do.

Ah thank you for clarification.

Despite my vow to be firmly plonked in one spot today and not move, it appears I have lied and I'm hither and thither.

I assumed Police Scotland's involvement was due to NC misgendering dear ol' Beth