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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #27

1000 replies

nauticant · 13/07/2025 08:26

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions wereFri provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22
Thread 23: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5285690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-23
Thread 24: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24
Thread 25: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5318518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-25
Thread 26: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5335861-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-26

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
RoyalCorgi · 16/07/2025 09:52

Part of NHS FIfe's case (and Dr Upton's case) is that Sandie Peggie harassed Dr Upton. Now that a disciplinary panel has cleared her of that, what on earth are they going to argue? They have not got a leg to stand on.

NebulousSupportPostcard · 16/07/2025 09:52

Have been 'waiting for the conference host to join' Room 4 for 30 mins.

Catching up on the headlines, link in case anyone missed it upthread.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25316918.sandie-peggie-cleared-gross-misconduct-allegations/

Is there still theoretically time for the case to be settled? I'm presuming it most likely wont because Fife have already said Sandie wants to continue?

Thoughts and prayers for the Fife collusion team members who are still anticipating being dragged though the tribunal after the news has already spread that Sandie is cleared. 😂

Sandie Peggie cleared of gross misconduct allegations

Sandie Peggie has been cleared of all internal misconduct allegations following a dispute over changing room access with trans colleague Dr Beth…

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25316918.sandie-peggie-cleared-gross-misconduct-allegations/

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2025 09:52

ItsCoolForCats · 16/07/2025 09:45

Some of the comments on there are hilarious. Sandie Peggie deserved everything that happened to her because she is a racist Trump supporting bigot. And her husband supports white supremacism And her (lesbian) daughter posts anti-LBTQ+ content on social media.

I say it's hilarious, but it quite terrifying really that people can create this narrative to deny someone having recourse to justice.

I think I saw (maybe) 2 sensible comments and the rest is just hilarious arm flailing along the lines of 'well, he did lie about her endangering patients but erm, well, erm, she's a grifter!'

ickky · 16/07/2025 09:52

@chilling19 Hello 👋

Are you wftchtj or actually in the room?

wantmorenow · 16/07/2025 09:53

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2025 09:49

It’s made it to TRA Reddit now

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/s/EH3jf65PWp

The stay safe message boils my blood. What do they think is the actual danger they face? 🤬

Selala · 16/07/2025 09:53

I wonder if the announcement about the internal investigation was made so close to the restarting of the tribunal so that NC has little time to prepare?

CompleteGinasaur · 16/07/2025 09:54

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2025 09:49

It’s made it to TRA Reddit now

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/s/EH3jf65PWp

I've just invented a new emotion, I think. It sits somewhere between karma and schadenfreude...

musicalfrog · 16/07/2025 09:54

Have they arrived at court yet?

ThreeWordHarpy · 16/07/2025 09:55

A question to the people with online access

Does your email with instruction contain an email address for the court/tribunal? i haven’t had an automatic acknowledgement to my email to [email protected] this morning which leads me to suspect it is no longer being used for this hearing.

And yes my junk folder has been thoroughly checked.

nauticant · 16/07/2025 09:55

For those on Twitter, if you use this link it shows only the tweets from Tribunal Tweets and also if you scroll the screen down slightly and then scroll it back to the top it auto-refreshes:

https://x.com/search?q=from%3Atribunaltweets&src=typed_query&f=live

OP posts:
Lunde · 16/07/2025 09:56

kittykarate · 16/07/2025 09:31

Wasn't this misconduct hearing only last Friday? I'm amazed they turned it around so quickly to be honest.

June 24th according to the Herald so 3 weeks ago

BezMills · 16/07/2025 09:56

CompleteGinasaur · 16/07/2025 09:54

I've just invented a new emotion, I think. It sits somewhere between karma and schadenfreude...

Karenfreude - the feeling of grim satisfaction enjoyed by a women of a certain age when someone gets the FAFOs

Trovindia · 16/07/2025 09:56

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2025 09:49

It’s made it to TRA Reddit now

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/s/EH3jf65PWp

The comment to "stay safe everyone" as though they are going to come to any harm because a nurse has been cleared of misconduct in Scotland! They are so melodramatic.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 16/07/2025 09:56

I've tried Safari and Chome. Absolutely no indication that anything might be going to happen - a black screen and can't hear anything. No wftchtj or whatever it should be.

GreenFriedTomato · 16/07/2025 09:56

Anyone still WFTCHTJ ?

SidewaysOtter · 16/07/2025 09:56

I tried on a different laptop and am now WFTCHTJ.

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 09:57

Selala · 16/07/2025 09:53

I wonder if the announcement about the internal investigation was made so close to the restarting of the tribunal so that NC has little time to prepare?

That's kind of you to suggest, but I wouldn't credit anyone at NHS Fife with that sort of strategic thinking skill.

Waitwhat23 · 16/07/2025 09:57

wantmorenow · 16/07/2025 09:53

The stay safe message boils my blood. What do they think is the actual danger they face? 🤬

Scared Kermit The Frog GIF

The truth. It's very scary for them.

rebmacesrevda · 16/07/2025 09:57

Trovindia · 16/07/2025 09:56

The comment to "stay safe everyone" as though they are going to come to any harm because a nurse has been cleared of misconduct in Scotland! They are so melodramatic.

It's genocide!!!

BezMills · 16/07/2025 09:57

https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1945406435237503478

Sandie Peggie has arrived at the tribunal. Her solicitor, Margaret Peggie, reads out a statement confirming that she has been cleared of gross misconduct allegations in NHS Fife's internal investigation.

https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1945406435237503478

Redshoeblueshoe · 16/07/2025 09:58

Well Sandie has arrived and she looks very happy. From the Herald Scotland link

Notfinanciallyresponsibleforyou · 16/07/2025 09:58

I will be back later. My blood pressure has gone up because of Fife’s last minute capitulations basically acknowledging their shitty behaviour of an experienced nurse. We are all so lucky that SP had the resolve to stand up to the management and we should all be grateful that she did.

prh47bridge · 16/07/2025 09:58

mzdemeanour · 16/07/2025 08:19

Any lawyers able to say if/how this might affect the soon to resume proceedings?

Impossible to say for sure, but it blows the defence Fife have been running (that SP is a bigot who deserved punishment) out of the water. Their only possible defence now is to argue that they've followed the correct process in dealing with these allegations, but I don't think that flies and, in any case, it fails to take into account their failure to provide a single sex changing room for women, as required by law.

Upton can stick with the defence arguments to date, but he will be on his own if he does so. As Michael Foran says, NHS Fife agreeing to joint representation with Upton and funding his defence was a huge mistake. They assumed that their interests were identical, which was only true if SP didn't have a case. I cannot see any way Fife can now defend their position without abandoning Upton, and I don't see any way Upton can defend his position without attacking Fife.

I look forward to seeing what happens when the hearing gets under way.

chilling19 · 16/07/2025 09:58

ickky · 16/07/2025 09:52

@chilling19 Hello 👋

Are you wftchtj or actually in the room?

Am in the room with a blank screen and two waiting in the lobby - room 5

wantmorenow · 16/07/2025 09:59

https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1945406435237503478
Video of a very happy SP arriving at court. 💖

https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1945406435237503478

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