NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

I applaud the attitude of the thread! 😀

Organisations like Mumsnet seem to have forgotten the basic rule of questionnaire design - it is about capturing the data you want/need. Giving respondents a box to tick on intersex is crazy because I suspect they don't want that data, and they won't be analysing any of the other fields by it either. Questionnaires are being used to make some people feel included, but actually in most cases the data isn't wanted or analysed.

I realised that journalism was not what it used to be when I started to see regular less/fewer misuse.

Your comment about other outdated and/ or offensive terms was spot on and I was going to make a similar comment myself.

If you felt like making it anyway, I suspect it wouldn’t go amiss - I think (or rather I hope!) that the more of us that make a noise, the more likely they might be to pay attention.

Just doing a bit of advertising for the NHS Policy Audit group over on this thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=12

We finished the Scottish trusts last week and (all being well) there will be national press coverage tomorrow.

Very exciting that we might help make a difference from our collective sofas.

Some keen beans have already started chipping away at the list of English trusts. Even if you can only do one or two that would be fab.

Please come on over to our thread and DM me for the online survey link. It is all completely anonymous. I won't know who or where you are so I can guarantee total discretion.

All help gratefully received xx

Can I just give a HUGE shoutout to @KnottyAuty, who has been absolutely brilliant in her management of this exceedingly nebulous project. She’s made it easier for all the vipers to do their research, she’s cheered us on, and she’s been very busy behind the scenes collating things and getting the info out to the wider world.

I'll second that @TwoLoonsAndASprout . @KnottyAuty has been awesome. Its not difficult, some online research for the relevant policies, a read through these and a simple online form to complete.

Agree @KnottyAuty has done an amazing job of pulling together what little information the trusts provide into a clear report

Im sure that all Mum'snets user's know its ea'sy to under'stand the rule's of apostrophe's

I have been known to complain in shops about misplaced apostrophes. M&S, Boots and Sainsbury’s have borne the brunt of my ire. Boots also misspelt confectionery as confectionary. The person at the desk was dismissive of my complaint, so I contacted head office. Head office apologised, but repeated the mistake in the apology.

At least they didn't send you some stationary in compensation.

I had a note from my favourite cousin earlier and she signed off with 'lot's of love' 😬

Ok here's the first article:
https://archive.is/Xjf8e

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/25/bearded-trans-women-treated-female-wards-scottish-nhs/

Well done everyone for helping with the audit xx

Brilliant, glad to see it in print!

Woohoo! Fantastic! And oh my, the comments!

I first copied the link to archive when it was 12 comments and by the time I got back it was at 48 - literally in a flash - but I can't see any of them as I am not a subscriber...Has anyone got a gift link please?

Gosh also just spotted this also on the Telegraph site:
https://archive.is/NuNfI

Omg, well done, that is amazing! Such a great piece and so good to be bringing it out into the open. Huge well done to all involved, what a bunch of wims! 😍

Well done for getting it in the Telegraph. That's brilliant. The more sunlight the better!

My goodness that is one of the most outspoken and searingly accurate reports I have seen in MSM. Suzanne Moore pulls no punches👊boom!!

So many people will be nodding along tho!
(love your “ 👊🏻Boom!” Which I may have to steal)

In truth, this “movement” was always a forced coalition between male fetishists and distressed teenage girls.

Yes, yes, yes!! Someone says it out loud! Well said, Suzanne! 👏👏

I would also be very grateful if anyone has a gift link as I’m longing to see the comments.

Brilliant work @KnottyAuty and everyone!

"In truth, this “movement” was always a forced coalition between male fetishists and distressed teenage girls. If gender identity was someone’s true identity suppressed for years, why do we find it mostly in middle-aged men who finally get to wear frilly knickers? Was this absurdity not obvious? We do not suddenly have a generation of middle-aged women declaring themselves to be men. The best we can manage is some attention-seeking actresses having a haircut and declaring themselves “non-binary”

I just copied that bit out, too, duc.

I wonder how it feels to realise you've been publically championing the rights of male fetishists over safeguarding?

Cheerleading for the rights of Isla Bryson, rapist, to be housed in a women's prison. For Eddie Izzard, cross dresser, to access women's toilets. For Jordan Grey to expose his penis on Iive TV?