NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

The Tories are pro individual choice as well as being socially conservative - they seem to have taken the individual choice line on this one, but are now back to being socially conservative.

Yes, I'm quoting my own post!

Hope you don't feel I'm nagging you about this, but is it OK to email Sex Matters today and say that if they see an influx of donations in the near future, they're from us and they are intended as a gesture of gratitude to NC and MG?
There has to be an element of synchronising if the donations are to be identifiably ours..

And then I suppose I should contact NC and MG and tell them about it, otherwise it wouldn't work as a gesture, now would it?!

Does that sound OK?

I donated yesterday in response.

Can’t speak for [gestures with a half-eaten caramel wafer at the enormous and growing crowd on here ❤️] all them lot, but that sounds good to me!

Good idea @MarieDeGournay thanks!

I think I'd say they're probably from us, or that some of them will be, but that is just because I am the pedant di tutti pedanti. But yes, it's a good idea - it's another bit of sunlight, letting one group know what another group is doing.

Righty-o, now I know I'm not overstepping, I'll contact Sex Matters, NC and MG later today.

I'll post my emails to them, which I'll keep short and to-the-point, if they're aware of all the donations in memory of SP's father, they'll get the message

Happy to contribute to this😄

Like other parties, the Tories have a range of views. Crispin Blunt is very much on the TWAW bandwagon. Penny Mordaunt isn't, although some of her earlier comments suggest she may have been at one time. Kemi Badenoch, the current leader, is definitely GC. The party has always been against self-ID.

Igneococcus · Yesterday 18:06

It's amazing to watch how they figure out where it is worth diving or deploying an ROV based on minute changes in H2 concentrations in the water and their knowledge of ocean currents.

Have you been in the Black Sea? Nothing organic rots, but crikey, we went through a lot of fittings, even when we got a supply of corrosion resistant ones.

I've just sent this email to Emma at Sex Matters admin team, I hope it was OK, with no typos or anything😱
.
I mentioned NC, MG 'and all the legal team supporting SP' because I'm sure there are unsung heroes behind the big names who deserve a mention

I'll forward it to NC and MG with a few lines, which I'll also post here asap.

Dear Emma,

There was a reason behind my enquiry about comments appearing/anonymous donations.

Those of us on the Feminism: Sex and gender discussions board on Mumsnet who have been following the Sandie Peggie tribunal have expressed a wish to show our appreciation for the work of Naomi Cunningham, her barrister, and Margaret Gribbon, her solicitor in this case, and also the many other cases that Naomi Cunningham has participated in. We are full of admiration and gratitude for her work, as anybody who has followed our real-time comments on the tribunal will know!

It was decided that the most appropriate way to show our gratitude would be to make donations to a suitable cause - we made donations to the Peggie family's chosen charity in memory of Sandie's late father, and in this case we chose Sex Matters, not only because it does such valuable work which we greatly admire, but because Naomi Cunningham is Chair of your Board of Trustees.

So if you see an uptick in donations, most of them will be from us. Most of us will be donating anonymously, and so we won't be able to add comments, but I think we would all say something along the lines of:

We are making this donation to Sex Matter, as a gesture of admiration and appreciation to Naomi Cunningham, Margaret Gribbon and all the legal team supporting Sandie Peggie in her claim against NHS Fife Health Board.

With every good wish,
Marie

That looks great!

Help please - I've got a bit of a problem about forwarding the email to NC and MG - I've got NC's direct email address no problem, but I can't find a direct one for MG, and would have to send it to 'info@' Bridge Employment Solicitors, which seems a bit too public..

Any suggestions? will I just forward the email to NC and say 'and we extend our gratitude to MG and all the legal team' and hope she lets MG know - but do
solicitors and barristers even speak to each other??

I think just send it to the main address. It may be that she has had to withdraw her public contacts due to harassement. When I tried to find her I saw on Companies House that she had wound up her own business and gone into the practice where you are going to contact her (sorry forgotten the name). It seemed surprising to me and I assume it's not because her business was failing. Hopefully she has too much work rather than lots of nasty emails

Refreshingly frank letter in the Herald:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/25025358.real-dangers-women-transgender-ideology/

Ffs, also in the Herald

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25027515.new-dundee-university-rector-recently-critical-operations/

Well I expect that will just finish Dundee off - as if the staff and students there were not already having a tough time

Oh yes Maggie PersonPerson

Mission accomplished: I've forwarded the Sex Matters email as above at 14.40 today, to NC and MG, with the following intros:

Dear Naomi Cunningham,
As you can see from the forwarded email below, we wanted to show our appreciation for your work representing Sandie Peggie, but also your work in other cases which we have followed closely, often in real time on MN, and with great admiration.

We felt the most appropriate way to do that was to make donations to Sex Matters, with which you are associated, and hopefully they are now seeing many donations coming in which will mostly be labelled 'anonymous', but we want you and Sex Matters to know that these donations are from us, and are being made in your honour.

Dear Margaret Gribbon,
As you can see from the forwarded email below, we wanted to show our appreciation for your work in Sandie Peggie's case against Fife NHS- a case we are following with great interest on Mumsnet.

We felt the most appropriate way to do that was to make donations to Sex Matters, an organisation with which Sandie Peggie's barrister Naomi Cunningham is associated.

Hopefully Sex Matters are now seeing many donations coming in, and we would like you to know that they are being made as a gesture of appreciation for your work on Sandie Peggie's case.

Hope that meets with general approval!

Donate to Sex Matters - Sex Matters

Done.

Done - thank you.

Signed up for a monthly donation. Fingers crossed for Supreme Court/FWS, SP, etc etc etc.

(Obviously I am now having fantasies about becoming BFs with NC, HJ and MF)

KnottyAuty · Today 16:10

Refreshingly frank letter in the Herald:

That's an absolutely cracking letter! Completely to the point and no punches pulled, at all.

On donations, I'm not in a position right now, normally, I donate, but have had no work since November. Circumstances have conspired so that I won't have a payday till May, now.

Once I'm straight, I'll get the trowel out for the good causes.

Done.

REPLY FROM NAOMI CUNNINGHAM
Naomi Cunningham

8:55 PM (29 minutes ago)
to me
I think there must be something in my eye… this is such a lovely message. Thank you all. This movement is something else.

xx Naomi