NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

Just following from this (delurking) to say my husband and his med colleagues all repeatedly failed the inclusion part of their CPd training. They all refused to gaslight the granny in a female ward asking if there was a man there. The man was a tim and the correct answer was to tell the little old lady that there was no men on the ward.

I think in the end they all had to gaslight the granny to pass but it was a huge talking point in their unit and nobody agrees with it.

There is constant pushback against this going on in the background but those involved need to tread very carefully!

@OhBuggerandArse It's pure tribalism, I think - but I also think that American politics (which have been infecting our discourse via internet exposure) is behind all of this.

Look at the insanity Trump is currently unleashing, and how his followers insist that the Democrats "made" him act like this because their policies were so unreasonable. But the Democrats said the same thing about him the first time round. And he was a reaction to Obama being elected at alll, etc. It's an endless race to the bottom because the other side is always so terrible it excuses being more and more extreme, and more and more tribal to resist what you don't like about the other side.

It's utterly toxic.

There are pics on Twitter of the Darlington nurse and he is nowhere near as fragrant looking as Dr Upton.

One pic was shared on the last page of the previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22?reply=142579721&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

I feel he may peak even more people than Upton.

I hope this was a hypothetical situation and not a real one!

There are pics on Twitter of the Darlington nurse and he is nowhere near as fragrant looking as Dr Upton.

Nor was Upton before his "transition". I think they look pretty similar tbh.

Unsavoury suggestion about his family context here from Twitter (obviously we don't know from this that it is definitely his father).

https://x.com/Sorelle_Arduino/status/1896480970410512588

I think Upton will present better - it's not just about looks.

We don't know whether this is his father or just a coincidence of names. Either way, if this is the same man now charged, then cross dressing features in his backstory.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/local-news/acklam-community-theatre-society-set-3667025#amp-readmore-target

FFS what a family. I hope the media pick this up, and soon.

Thank you for new thread.

Is Henderson due to give evidence?

If this is dad then his trial starts 9th June, which is shortly before Darlington case which i think is on 16th June. There will be additional eyes on both cases I suspect.

The alleged offences were in the 80s - he is 57 now, so must have been a teenager at the time even if the alleged victims were significantly younger than him. Does anyone know any precedents for how historic offences like this are usually handled? Current sentencing (in Scotland anyway) tends to make allowances for young perpetrators.

I am just catching up from the previous thread

I don’t like that the Daily Mail reported on Sandie’s tribunal more accurately than the BBC, but here we are.

I agree. The Times and Telegraph have also been more reasonable than the Guardian and other leftish publications which are completely captured by the TWAW brigade.

Of the political parties I don't think the Communist Party goes along with TWAW so I wonder what their take, if any, is on the Sandie case?

Just following from this (delurking) to say my husband and his med colleagues all repeatedly failed the inclusion part of their CPd training. They all refused to gaslight the granny in a female ward asking if there was a man there. The man was a tim and the correct answer was to tell the little old lady that there was no men on the ward.

But in practice, it sounds as though they wouldn't gaslight a real granny, or any other woman who didn't want a man on her ward.

The whole business then makes a mockery of parts of EDI training, which could be good, if it wasn't infected with this nonsense.

Stonewall ‘wasted donor money’ on challenging equality regulator Hi all, does anyone have a Times sub they can share this article please? It is not directly to do with Sandie but adjacent, I think. Thank you.

I don't think the Communist Party is as on board as we originally thought. My understanding is that someone went rogue on women's rights on social media a few years ago and they have been back tracking ever since. Here is what their Web site says https://communistparty.org.uk/communist-party/national-commissions/lgbt-commission/

Kids referred to the Tavistock were 10 times more likely to have a parent who was a registered sex offender according to Hannah Barnes.

Here you go: https://archive.ph/kuiFb

https://archive.ph/kuiFb

Thank you both, that's much appreciated.

Said by @Chrysanthemum5 towards the end of thread 22:

the TRAs always tell us that criminal law will protect women from harm

If fucking only. Not just on the trans issue.

It's absolutely horrendous. All those so called professionals recommending hormones and whatever else for those poor children when the problem was their dads parents! It is absolutely disgraceful. I appreciate that wasn't the case for all the Tavi children but it sounds like quite a few. How can medicine claim to be evidence based when we ended up with this nonsense? What a load of absolute bollocks and I hope every single person involved in that shite feels utterly ashamed of themselves.

I think anyone who can't see why keeping someone in a pre-pubescent state is a horiffic idea is an immediate red flag. How any professional ever participated in any of it utterly baffles me.