NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #23

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19
Thread 20: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275782-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-20
Thread 21: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276925-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-21
Thread 22: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5280174-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-22

I love these threads and all their wondrous perambulations.

I wasn't trying to stop all the wonderful wandering ideas, I was just suggesting that we pause labelling them 'NHS Fife tries to silence nurse...' till the tribunal is back.

Let the cat-herding, and minding mice at crossroad continue, I'll happily join in on whatever random topic pops up, whatever the thread title😄

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5301295-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-24

@MarieDeGournay you are a very kind and considerate woman who thinks of others, as i have often seen.

So xxxxxx

Is nobody up for a splitter thread set up to make cheap pot shots and murky insinuations about the other thread?

This place really isn't what it used to be.

@ArabellaScott i dont understand your post.

That was a wee joke, don't worry about it.

@ArabellaScott, I got it 🤣

Spat my tea on my phone though, so thanks for that!

I said splitter.

Duh i get it now.

SqueakyDinosaur · Today 18:29

Surely you mean Vox nauticant, vox dei?

Well! I never had YOU down as a Lib Dem!

I actually WAS a card-carrying LD until they went mental. But both the constituencies I've lived in for the last 30 years have been a straight fight between Labour and the Tories, so I've always voted Labour in London.

Twas a joke on the Whigs, of course!

Can I derail for a min? Mumsnet has a census up that has, as it’s options under “What is your sex?”

Male
Female
Intersex

There have been a number of people who have complained on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5291529-mumsnet-census?page=1

that “intersex” is an offensive and outdated and inaccurate term for people with DSDs, and that people with DSDs don’t in any case constitute a nonexistent “third” sex. Mumsnet has replied that they were advised to have this third option, and seems to therefore be dismissing concerns. If any of you feel strongly about this, would you mind popping over and sharing your views?

(Also, just to be clear: I’m as offended by my it’s/its typo above as you all certainly are, but too late to edit. Hanging my head in shame…)

Advised by who? 😡

And salutations on knowing how it works: 'nobody' these days seems to know how apostrophe s rules apply. Or care.

The reply from Mumsnet said:

Hi all and thanks for your input. We always aim to take users’ views into account when designing our surveys. Previously, we've made changes to wording based on your feedback, and we carefully consider these issues each time. In this instance, we have chosen to include "intersex" as an option because there is a very small minority of people who are biologically difficult to categorise. While we understand that intersex is not a third sex, we felt it was important not to exclude that category when gathering relevant data. We appreciate that not everyone will agree with this approach of course, but we believe this wording is the best way to ensure all users feel able to respond accurately.

So actually, I lie, like cheap carpet. They didn’t suggest that they were advised, they made this choice all on their own, which is worse, IMHO.

(And yes, the it’s/its thing is deeply ingrained and makes me very itchy if it’s wrong.)

Deffo Team Apostrophe here!

Male
Female
Intersex

There is, of course, a risk that the intersex option will make the data hard to interpret since all sorts of folk with non-scientific beliefs about their sex may choose the that option rather than the boring binary

Met too. I bet there is a high correlation between GC views and appreciation for correct apostrophe usage

I did mention this in a comment to MN. Bad science makes me even more itchy than misused apostrophes.

It's bad science and the less/fewer howlers that make me itchy😁

(Had to quickly check my pp for less/fewer howlers! Now paranoid 🤣)

My dear old dad used to refuse to go into shops that misused apostrophes or had bad spelling in the window. He taught me well.

I know someone who seriously tried to persuade me that less and fewer are interchangeable. Despite his English literature professor wife telling him he was wrong, he was adamant and even got a bit aggressive. It was astonishing.

That seems right and proper to me, Knotty!