NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #6

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

OOH JR is saying if they require them to give the evidence they were previously asked for but didn't provide (against the law) 'the hearing will have to be adjourned'.

I missed what the Judge said but i don't think he liked JR presuming to make what is his decision?

JR: If you make us disclose the material we were told to disclose to this hearing and didn't, then this hearing may have to be adjourned.

JR says if they have to do what they were supposed to have done already (my wording!) the hearing will have to be adjourned

Disproportionate to whom?

I would very much like a break for lunch as my tummy is rumbling.
The support team look a little peaky too. They could do with something to perk them
up.

JR saying the hearing would have to be adjourned if they're forced to do what they previously were required to do by law is a bit threatening (as well as not her decision to make).

It's all a bit toddler tantrum, but that's how they/them roll.

NC essentially saying that the trust didn't make it at all obvious that there had been an initial investigation (by Esther) that was stood down.

And that they say Esther's only involvement was to collect DrU initial statement, but this isn't true because they know she collected future statement from him.

(and now they know Esther was involved in one of the incidents)

Just means a disproportionate approach to take by the court to how to resolve the issues before it.

Not a good argument given the disclosure was already ordered and there was no appeal of that case management decision, just wilful / extremely incompetent non-compliance.

I need to go to the shops for any food, somehow low on everything

If they could give a break for that

Yes. There's information missing.

I'm getting the impression that NHS Fife's Righteous Folx thought they had cleverly engineered a cosy undocumented witch-burning, lots of verbal chitchat and nose-tapping. That's why they fought to keep all the details secret when (inconceivable!) Sandy Peggie didn't just quietly set herself on fire to keep The Righteous warm, and instead set the law on them.

Some people don't 'inhabit' authority naturally, or very well...and it is they who tend to be patronising, unpleasant in tone etc ( see 'archetypal doctor's receptionist', as another example).

That is most likley why she is so ponderous in her questioning too.....trying to imitate authority without actually owning authority like NC

In case anyone is wondering about NC making this, justifiably, massively complex and a real nightmare for everyone, it's because it will trigger serious debate in the NHS about settling this case even if it's costs money and concessions.

Do judges get emotional about this stuff? Are they engaged?

Or is it more an irritation about the disrespect and incompetence?

Does anyone know?

Just wondering whether he’ll be chewing on Rennies over lunch.

NC: Esther was intended to be Investigation Manager. Was stood down when discovered she was involved in incident.

I am hungry and I need a wee so hoping a break is soon

To sum up:

NC: we just want to see the emails from the first investigation that didn't identify as an investigation
JR: you're making an unnecessary fuss.
NC: we just want to see the emails
Judge: and do you have a plan for that?
Nc: yes, here it is
Judge: seems reasonable
JR: whinges about the time it will take

Oh, to know what is going through Dr U's head atm. He is looking completely sidelined and unimportant while the grown-ups deal, and I don't think he's used to that.

Cross examination of Dr U likely to be moved to Monday

Yes! NC requesting to defer cross-examination to Monday. That'll put real pressure on NHS and Upton.

Bluetooth headphone are your friend 👍

No! I have to be in the office on Monday

Deferring to Monday.

You are revealing what an amateur you are PoshCoffee!
Haven't you got a Tribunal Survival Package of chocolate, bikkies of choice, anything still edible from last night's tea, bottles of water, flasks of hot drinks, cough sweets, crisps - posh crisps, obvs in your case😄?

Judge: Reminder not to discuss anything with anyone.