NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #4

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

He talks about how he knows she was intimidated. And that other women were intimidated.

Operation let them speak works because transactivism os wrong, on every level.

I can't vouch for whether or not the judge is a misogynist or a TRA, but certainly, letting this man speak will only be favourable to Sandie.

whichever way it goes, I cannot wait for JKR and Janice Turner to get hold of it

Now she made too much eye contact.

NHS Wasting our tax £ for this, shocking, sack him and his acolytes.

He has a real thing about maintaining eye contact. Never heard anyone so obsessed about people - well, Sandie at least - keeping eye contact with them.

Just caught up. Thanks for all the posts. I'm probably being unfair to him, especially as I've not heard him speak the words but there's a vibe coming across that much of what he does, he does because he's been taught this is how normal people behave. In this circumstance, you do this. Maybe he can't deal with people going off script? Although perhaps it just seems like that because of the context?

Sorry - wasn’t it a heinous crime that she waited outside? Now it’s a crime that she didn’t leave??

Which is it?

'I explained to her as a woman...'

6m x 4m isn't really small, though. Assuming the good doctor knows his metres from his feet, that is.

"As a woman I'm allowed to use these changing rooms"

F&%##&++++++£*!!!!;

So, DU reports that SP said that "these are the female changing rooms, you shouldn't be here, it's intimidating and inappropriate, and others are intimidated by you being here too"

DU reports, "she was calm, rehearsed, direct, maintained eye contact"

DU, "I said I was sorry she was upset, but that as a woman I am allowed to use these changing rooms and that if she has a problem with this there are channels she could go through but that this wasn't an appropriate time or place to do it."

DU I explained to her that as a woman I can use these crs. If she has a problem there are channels but this isn't the time or place to do it.

Ffs

He said, as a woman I'm entitled to use these changing rooms. NO

Still won't slow down for the judge. Repeating at the same speed is not helpful

I wonder if it's deliberately to run down time.

He's not sounding at all anxious or upset when he says 'SP told me that other people felt intimidated with me in there' - he clearly doesn't care about other people's feelings.

JR dissecting a woman's 'tone'. Eggshells. Coercive control and all that.

SP just wants a single sex space.

BU wants the appropriate 'tone' and level of eye contact from women at all times. This may change depending on his mood.

Oh he 'explained to her as a woman I can use these changing rooms'. Poor patients.

Oh 'not an appropriate time or place' to raise this. Well she wasn't forewarned was she? Fucks sake.

He graduated in 2021 from a (normally) 5 year degree course. I'm not sure if he's from Scotland and the impact of highers - he could be 27 this year if from England. or he could be the Theodore Upton born in 1995.

I'd expect NC's line of questioning to be gentle in tone but very much tto the point. She's far too astute to act as JR has.

Maybe the judge not asking him to slow down so the judge can take notes is because he hasnt heard anything he thinks is worth recording.

Can anyone explain the references to the family Christmas meal? Was a conversation there brought up in evidence?

Sorry I’m skim reading at intervals. I should probably accept I can’t keep up!

NC it's definitely going to say he's not a woman either legally or biologically, isn't she

Judge asked him to slow down and repeat.

DU: 'Yeah, go for it', he says..

.. in a courtroom surrounded by all these people in these circumstances. It is not credible that he is such the marginalised vulnerable tw at work made anxious by Sandie Peggie as he sets out.

Operation Let Them Speak!!!

Their voice sounds very slightly shaky at times. Dr U's eye contact is limited - speaking down to the desk and rarely looking up. Soft scottish accent feminine sounding

"I am not a man" "I can be in this changing room"

Wouldn't be surprised if this is due to arrested psychological development. People indoctrinated into behaving this way when young tend to get stuck at that stage. Don't grow up properly. If he is autistic (not that we know that), that might also account for delayed psychological maturation, and being enabled in a fantasy identity doesn't help.

He's definitely sounds autistic. All relations are rule based and learned, not instinctive.

Those dimensions of the room look about right to me judging from the photo visible on the clerk's screen. But it's filled with lockers, sinks and cubicles so the circulation space is much smaller.