NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #4

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Why behind? Surely he'd find if more supportive if he could actually see them. It's not about support. It's performative bullshit. I just hope the judges see that.

Apart from anything else, I genuinely don't understand why he thought complaining about someone not wanting to get undressed in front of him was a good look.

It's really fucking creepy. Shows Sandie was right to trust her instinct and wait outside.

I just wonder what is going through his mum's mind (and his dad's too, I suppose) as she has to sit there trying to keep control of her expressions. Not what any of us would want for our kids - but is she just seeing it through her son's eyes, or can she see how ludicrously awful this situation he has created is?

Thanks for the thread. Following with jaw dropping. The entitlement is off the scale!

The Judge shouldn't have allowed it. It's clearly biased behaviour allowed within court.

I have an adult nephew with Aspergers and he's been playing it since he was a teenager.

I suppose the difference is that his parents realised that they wouldn't be around to help him navigate the world for ever so they made sure that he learned 'how non-neurodiverse people behave' and what to look out for.

Anyone else passing the time by refreshing the tribute page to Sandie's dad?

Over £1100 now, you appalling bunch of vipers.

I am seriously considering requesting the link to join. I work in HR and as a member of Seen in HR am following this closely.

As well as being an Adult Human Female, who was sexually assaulted by a man (who to my knowledge identified as such) in the women’s toilets, and continues to suffer with PTSD, made significantly more manageable by several years of therapy. I can confirm that I would and have, turned around and left female only facilities because a male has been in there (most notably, motorway service station toilets with male cleaning staff). There is nothing in this world that would allow me to share that changing room with DU, and it’s a hill I would be willing to die on.

I simply cannot understand how the ‘rights’ of DU to have others ‘be kind’, validate their existence and not be made ‘sad’, override others rights in terms of disability (which is what my ptsd is in legal terms), sex, or belief- including religion and GC.

If it were me I would probably be there supporting my child on anti-depressants and making life choices which were probably not going to make them any happier. But I would be terribly conflicted about it. I would certainly be hoping that the finding found that NHS Fife had not acted responsibly to both parties. This has now been dragging on for over a year - it must be having a horrible effect on all involved

I've had a consultant wheel me on my bed to a CT scan as there wasn't anyone else available and time was of the essence. If he'd insisted it wasn't his job and waited for a porter I'd be dead right now.

Nah - must be those kindly Reddit folks

The individual's behaviour and entitlement really lays it all out for anyone who isn't wilfully blinded by the fumes from their own Righteous farts. Expecting female humans to validate his fee-fees with their own unclothed bodies, and then being displeased if they didn't, and stalkerishly keeping notes about their supposed wrongdoings with the deliberate plan of escalating action against them, and all the while safe in the knowledge that the powers that be would bend over backwards for him.

Do we know what the seating arrangements are off camera? Is there space elsewhere in the room? We can only see the panel, the witness stand and the front row of lawyers.

The five person support team are in prime position top and centre of the shot. It's not just a performance for the judge, it's a performance put on for everyone watching over video.

I love what people as awful as the mnetters who hang out on fwr can do!

Just a musing about DU evidence, i think the reason why there is a fictitious event in the resuscitation cubicle is because his complaint about the CR does wash in terms of equality law. If SP had left the CR because she did not like a particular woman and did it repeatedly then that might be construed as bullying, he can not assert he should be treated the same as another woman in the CR since he is a man.
Hence the alleged pattern of behaviour would have to include an event outside the CR.

I'm sat in Starbucks welling up, it's not a good look people.

(My hospital insisted on not paying me for lunch- outcome I Always take the full break. Idiots)

I'm loving imagining the reaction in the Scottish Society for Rheumatology, and the further peaking that will happen as a result.

Dr. U insists on being so very special and important both in his identity and in his daily work. Yet the women consultants, nurses, NHS staff on this thread come across as being very much part of a team in their work.

Another side note - NHS Fife and many other Scottish health boards currently have a hiring freeze because budgets are so strained. There are many empty posts but they are not being advertised because there is no money to pay people to fill the roles.

I am so demoralized that while patient care is being compromised by lack of money, a huge legal bill is being run up for this extremely long tribunal with extremely expensive lawyers and barristers.

SP could argue she left the changing room and waited to give DU privacy.

I don't know Dr Upton sounded very confident, unlike SP who sounded as if she was under terrible strain.

If you're constantly affirmed and don't have the empathy to notice that people are only doing it out of fear, and don't notice or care about others' (women's) discomfort or safety then I'm not sure it would have a horrible effect being involved in this. And NHS Fife seem to have gone out of their way to pander to his delusions and wants.

I'm pretty sure from the testimony this morning he thinks he has the right to force unconsenting women to undress in front of him and doesn't think non-trans women have human rights. It's all entirely about him.

I wonder if Naomi Cunningham's exam will be the first time Dr Upton has seriously been asked to consider the point of view of another demographic.

£1,258.75 now. Amazing response, wims, something really good coming out of this horrible time for Sandie and her family.

It really does bring home how many people do not view women as fully human, with feelings, rights and needs of their own.

But then if we were viewed as fully human, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

So a nearly 30 yr old man is upset because a woman didn't want to be in a changing room with him?