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Original poster

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board - thread #2

1000 replies

nauticant · 04/02/2025 11:37

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

First thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

It's being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Harassedevictee · 04/02/2025 14:24

Signalbox · 04/02/2025 14:10

Is there anything specific we should avoid commenting on? Considering the defence consider misgendering and calling BU a man is grossly offensive I imagine they would take issue with the entire thread.

Show quote history

Using correct pronouns is fine but perhaps ridiculing a witnesses appearance may not be.

I am not the arbiter but can see the witness in the Allison Bailey ET was Stonewalls sacrificial witness. They appeared, to me, to be vulnerable and subject to a lot of ridicule, including in the media.

It would not reflect well on SPs case if her supporters ridiculed DUs appearance.

ILikeDungs · 04/02/2025 14:24

wantmorenow · 04/02/2025 14:23

Just been booted out

Me too

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/02/2025 14:24

nauticant · 04/02/2025 13:47

Thanks. I posted my warning simply out of wanting the hearing to run smoothly and there not being opportunities for Peggie's case to be disrupted by external matters.

Show quote history

It would be awful if NHS Fife were to be able to use comments made online to somehow accuse this courageous women of more wrongthink. Hopefully the right to free speech will dominate.
Women everywhere owe her such a debt of gratitude for taking this on.

GCITC · 04/02/2025 14:25

LipbalmOrKnickers · 04/02/2025 14:22

I assume this was the same for everyone, but I did notice that when I received access from Edinburgh, it didn't have any attachments detailing log-in, expected behaviour etc that I've had when observing ETs etc. before.

It did cross my mind that new observers might be left to figure out procedure on the fly...

Exactly. And procedures have changed over time, so what used to work now doesn't . The systems are not user-friendly.

There should be a big 'I just want to observe' button that doesn't allow cameras or mics to be turned on.

chilling19 · 04/02/2025 14:25

Me too - back in the lobby

LipbalmOrKnickers · 04/02/2025 14:25

Back in now.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 04/02/2025 14:26

Oh bloody hell. This is not going to be good, is it?

Harassedevictee · 04/02/2025 14:27

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 04/02/2025 14:11

There is real outrage that SP has named DU as the second respondent. It’s actually a clever move.

This is a first tribunal, so it won't set precedent. If Ms Peggie wins, NHS Fife are unlikely to appeal. But Dr Upton might want to. Would being second respondant allow him to (I think the term is "has standing")? Because Dr Upton appealing and losing would set precedent.

Show quote history

I believe DU could appeal even if the hospital don’t.

Allison Bailey has appealed against one part of her judgement - the decision in favour of Stonewall.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/02/2025 14:27

Back in and no camera / mic option

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 04/02/2025 14:27

Nope. 🙂‍↔️

We can hear her eating crisps.

ILikeDungs · 04/02/2025 14:27

Back, what happened? What's up? Just see someone's black screen

Original poster
nauticant · 04/02/2025 14:27

I've got a black screen and, I think, someone eating the occasional crisp.

OP posts:
ickky · 04/02/2025 14:27

Great now we have to listen to someone eating crisps.

wantmorenow · 04/02/2025 14:27

Me too, but as someone who taught remotely in lockdown, how is it that the host cannot mute attendee's microphones. I certainly could. Now we have more random video and munching sounds. 🥴😁

Datun · 04/02/2025 14:27

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/02/2025 14:24

It would be awful if NHS Fife were to be able to use comments made online to somehow accuse this courageous women of more wrongthink. Hopefully the right to free speech will dominate.
Women everywhere owe her such a debt of gratitude for taking this on.

Show quote history

I agree. And I hope she gets to read threads like this.

Boiledbeetle · 04/02/2025 14:28

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 04/02/2025 14:27

Nope. 🙂‍↔️

We can hear her eating crisps.

Read that and laughed out loud.

please tell me no one heard!!!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/02/2025 14:28

I am crunching loudly, and am paranoid now (but not my name on screen)

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 04/02/2025 14:28

We all heard her! 😂

ickky · 04/02/2025 14:29

Why has it gone tits up all of a sudden?

Original poster
nauticant · 04/02/2025 14:29

Do you think the chair might ban observers having crisps?

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 04/02/2025 14:30

This is going splendidly! (If it was 2005)

Cailleach1 · 04/02/2025 14:30

PepeParapluie · 04/02/2025 13:49

I find it so depressing that women, including JR, all know how intimidating it is or would be to find oneself alone in a changing room with a male person (whatever their identity). As women, we instinctively know that. We’ve almost certainly all had a time when the presence of a male person has caused us discomfort for whatever reason. Yet here, poor nurse Peggie is being made out to be some awful bully for (a) feeling that and (b) having the audacity to say something about it.

Dr Upton didn’t need to do anything to be intimidating, it’s an act of intimidation to be a male person in a single sex female space.

Every case I feel like the world has gone mad and can’t get more mad, and yet every time I’m shocked again.

I personally would find it very oppressive to have a random man (who was not my family) undressing in an enclosed supposedly space with only me and him in the room. I would be on such high alert all the time, it would be exhausting. Also, you’d have to be fidgeting underneath a bath towel yourself so there would be no voyeuristic possibilities for any males in such a space. It is the complete lack of consent for women, and the full entitlement of males enforced from on high.

I wonder if men now think they have a right to lodge complaints of bullying about women who won’t stay while the chaps are undressing, or women who don’t wish to be in a state of undress in front of a male. The bold woman refused,

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/02/2025 14:30

They need to start to provide clear joining instructions, and boot those who cannot follow them. This is such a waste of court time.

GCITC · 04/02/2025 14:30

nauticant · 04/02/2025 14:29

Do you think the chair might ban observers having crisps?

He might just ban observers.

PoshCoffee · 04/02/2025 14:31

Oh gawd, what’s happening now? I’ve been disconnected again just after the man cleared his throat and sniffed very loudly

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