NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board - thread #2

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

First thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

It's being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

JR no mention of transwomen in this is there?

Cheers @nauticant

Thanks I'm switching over

Who is 'she'? The cat's mother?

If Dr Upton is distressed by being reminded he is a man he is in the wrong profession - because you cant easily avoid seeing undressed people in his role. Every female body he sees will remind him his body is not female, however much he tries to mimic women. He has a cupboard he could change in, instead of trying to force the women into it. You have to wonder why he doesnt find seeing female bodies uncomfortable if he has gender dyphoria.

Would DU examine a patient without a screen around the bed or the cubicle? Has he not heard of the words dignity and privacy?

Would DU undress in front of a crowd of strangers without a screen?

Why does he need to go a changing room because he wants dignity and privacy?

Why cant SP have the same?

Surely it is irrelevant what JR or Maya thinks. In law, without a GRC, TW are male/men.

She should look at the comments on the FB page of the local paper.

You need to scroll down a bit to get to the relevant article and comments: "Why nurse Sandie Peggie has taken Fife NHS to tribunal over Dr Beth Upton transgender dispute".

https://www.facebook.com/FifeFreePress

It's going to really help with the nursing recruitment crisis, nurses being forced by their employer to get undressed in front of men.

Let's hope the private healthcare companies know what biological sex is, they can go and work there.

I know I'm a broken record, but it just shows it's not about his gender dysphoria at all, or he would take those options, it's about using unconsenting women. The ridiculousness about eye contact shows it's about abuse and power dynamics.

If the NHS wins I think the headlines will peak a lot more people.

JR is so condescending! Maya doing well to stay neutral in tone.

The female nurse/the woman is the victim here, and it is women that we are primarily concerned about.

Ugh, this reminds me of a sleazy man who sidled up to teenaged me, mumbling “You look pale. Are you having a heavy period?” Ugh ugh ugh. I can still see his eager face, what a slime ball. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

It’s outrageous that any woman should be put through this in court. All for the pleasure of slimeball men.

I vote for intentionally thick; especially when she has, several times, instinctively 'misgendered' Dr Upton herself.

No one is taking him to court for being trans. Sandie is defending her right to undress in a women-only changing room.

Having to dance round someone because they find it deeply painful for not being something they can never be or have is ridiculous. They should get therapy not clog up the courts.

@icakethereforeIam I am very much of the opinion that what these men need is therapy to help them cope with their painful hurty feelings, not access to female changing rooms.

Although I suspect that the feelings might disappear if therapy was the only thing on offer.

I think Maya's doing really well. I suppose she has experience of hostile questioning 🙄

What you're saying is, that inherent to being trans, is the requirement to trample boundaries and disregard safeguarding.

Do you really believe that? If so how would you defend that?

Do you not think that this is actually somewhat transphobic? As in, actually transphobic as opposed to "shut up women" transphobic.

I would argue that plenty of trans people do not insist on using single sex spaces for the opposite sex because they understand why those spaces exist in the first place. Plenty of trans people are not offended by safeguarding because they understand that it is not personal, it is just the best we can do in society in order to attempt to mitigate threat to vulnerable groups such as women and children.

Why aren't so called trans allies expecting tolerance from men to accept transwomen into their spaces? Do we not all want to live in a tolerant society any more?

It's curious, isn't it, that this particularly fundamentalist strain of trans ideology got so far so fast? That ordinary trans people such as ones I've met are largely ignored by the media. I'd guess that's because it doesn't trouble the status quo (patriarchy, capitalism, big pharmaceutical companies etc) at all. There's nothing new about a system which keeps men ahead and expects women to endure additional risk with threat of social exclusion for non compliance.

I think Maya's doing really well. I suppose she has experience of hostile questioning

From the same barrister, no less.

If I were a patient on a waiting list of any kind to be treated at this hospital and I got wind of the money and staff hours the trust were ploughing into this, instead of treating patients and clearing their waiting lists, I would go absolutely batshit.

I would be complaining to PALS daily and encouraging everyone else on waiting lists to do the same.

What kind of useless, ineffective management would think, in a climate of funding issues and lack of resources for the trust to carry out its core activities of providing medical care, that this is what funds and staff time should be put into as a priority?

It’s an absolute fucking disgrace. The Health Minister should be stepping in here.

unfortunately the SG are fully captured by this nonsense ideology

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3