Thread 3: A corpus-assisted discourse analysis of linguistic transphobia on Mumsnet

[VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia]

In which we continue to discuss the Aston scrapists.

• The Site Stuff thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/sitestuff/5057903-mumsnet-corpus
• FWR thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5057460-a-corpus-assisted-discourse-analysis-of-linguistic-transphobia-on-mumsnet
• FWR thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5060410-thread-2-a-corpus-assisted-discourse-analysis-of-linguistic-transphobia-on-mumsnet

I'm pleased to read JustineMumsnet's update. It's reassuring to learn that matters are in hand.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that FoLD's use of the sandbox has extended beyond the purposes of which senior Aston personnel are aware.

If there was a scrape in Jan 2024, that extends beyond the implied 2023 that we knew about previously.

I applaud the research to which MN has consented. There's a clear trajectory to value to women in projects like that.

Thank you @JustineMumsnet 💐Good luck with getting it resolved.

Am I understanding what Justine has just said correctly, that Eden Palmer was facilitated to make fresh, recent scrape for her (misogynist) PHD? I had been under the impression she was using data Aston already held.

If I've understood correctly, that's absolutely abhorrent that Aston facilitated the scrape of a female forum specifically for a PhD heavily biased against women.

Imagine a university specifically facilitating a homophobic PhD to scrape Gay Reddit or a racist PhD to scrape Lipstick Alley?

Interesting

Yes this absolutely needs to be picked up in the press - its a disgrace that an academic institution facilitated such misogyny!

Yes, you are understanding that correctly, sadly.

Despite the clear T&Cs etc. What were the supervisor (Nicci MacLeod) and Tim Grant (Director of FoLD) thinking? Where was the ethics committee in this?

I look forward to further revisions to the upcoming IAFLL conference programme if any of the papers use the contested data scrapes.

https://www.aston.ac.uk/research/forensic-linguistics/iafll-regional-conference

@JustineMumsnet are you going to notify all users of this?

@JustineMumsnet I would really appreciate an update on where you are with the ICO.

They should have been informed by mumsnet, as the data controller, within 72 hours of the data breach coming to light.

Thank you for that update, hopefully the datasets are deleted as per the request.

Unlikely. They'll probably pop them in a locked place alongside Mein Kampf where you need special permission and your name logged for wanting to look at it.

@JustineMumsnet and can MN independently double check what they've done with the data - the uses to which it has been put and whether it has been fully deleted.

Edited to tag.

Yes, I rather think there's more going on at Aston than meets the eye. Because the MN forums are sufficiently 'open' (you don't need a password to see them) a lot of researchers see this kind of material as fair game. A good deal of forensic linguistics, as I understand it, has wrestled with the issue of authorship attribution, so it's hard to imagine that it would never have crossed anyone's mind. Particularly amongst those interested in 'transphobic hate crime', whatever that is. It's like talking to a child - 'No I wasn't doing that! - when the evidence is still in their hands.

Thanks for the update.
It's really quite extraordinary that Aston thought they had any leverage here when it goes against their own guidelines and MN terms. I would imagine they are between a rock and a hard place now as that data is a big part of their research grant resources.

Looking at the wider picture between this, and what is going on with the NY Times and Reddit with scraping why is this not being picked up on a larger scale?

Thank you @JustineMumsnet

Thanks for the update Justine, looking forward to the next one.

Thanks @JustineMumsnet I wonder if this should be on the site stuff thread too?

Yes, this would have been an ideal story for the Guardian.

Oh.... 🙄

Excellent update @JustineMumsnet . Thank you all.

I reckon these incidents are key in bringing the use of scraping tools to a wider audience. Data holders (like Reddit and MN) are having a 'hang on a minute' moment, followed by a robust asserting of their property. Universities and other bodies have probably been quietly doing this and getting away with it for a while. Once there's a push back and maybe the odd court case/settlement reputable organisations will come to their senses.

It wasn't me! Thank @IwantToRetire and @TokyoBouncyBall

Thank you for the update Justine.

That's good to hear, @JustineMumsnet - hopefully Aston will play ball without having to get the lawyers involved.

Please can I ask and apologies if it's already been explained on the previous threads but why do the slides have the University of Manchester on them ?