Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

I'd be so happy as the last witness, knowing that I only have to endure NC for an hour!

Culture of fear. Everything is about culture of fear. They wanted a culture of fear. Not about making an example, but we see misuse of pronouns as an unforgivable sin.

You can't have it both ways. It was a public punishment process.

NC you are saying it's unforgivable sin for gc people to use pronouns as they do naturally, use lang to fit bio sex of person referring to

MS there is a difference between what people do outside the workplace. At ercc our policy says have to use pronouns

NC your only weapon is bullying and fear to get people to pretend to think that bio males are women you must make them frightened to speak the truth. ERCC was making an eg of RA to make sure no one else spoke the truth.

MS No. It was about RA behaviour which caused harm

NC Was RA treated as she was cos ercc determined to stop any manifestation of gc belief? Reason Ercc responded as it did to RA enquiry to Ab was gc-phobic - we don't even have a word for it - profoundly institutionally hostile to gc views. Policy was coming from CEO and the board

MS No. And our trans incl pol was in place before MW

ERCC subverted from role helping rape victims and in vanguard of trans activism

MS no.

NC Prioritising staff members over service users

MS no

NC Your job to be conscience of the org, as I said to start with

MS yes

NC you have quite a lot of work to do in that capacity

MS we always have work to continue to be doing

Mic drop by NC there. Beautiful.

Just going to pick up on this one. This one has ramifications if the judge picks up on it.

The NHS should be watching VERY carefully at this point how this goes.

Can you imagine how bad that would have been?
ERCC have already come across worse than i could imagine.

Love this!

FUCKING HELL.

And when will MS be resigning from the board....?

Just curious.

Sorry for the slight derail , I’m not a rs, just shocked and upset at how rs are being used by this centre. Thank you for the love though in this fast moving thread.

how can MW be removed from his role?

DH asking some qs but I've stopped listening

These people are vile. I've gone from feeling sympathy for the witnesses because they are being used as sheild, to out right contempt.

The needs of rape survivors are secondary to the needs and feelings of the staff members. ERCC should be rebuilt from the ground up.

NC: .....prioritizing the 'identity projects' of staff members over the needs of traumatised service users

This is the nub.

I expect JKR will be taking Naomi and Roz out for a phenomenal meal at some point!

Quick five min break

If the judge finds that ERCC has put the needs of the staff before the needs of rape survivors does that put the ERCC's charitable status at peril?

DH finishing off. As convenor of board, to what degree are you involved with provision of services within centre

[MS answer might make sense to someone else but I don't have a clue what she is saying any more]

DH How were you involved in RA absence management.

MS RA told me her sick pay was ending. I followed up with nico, and we extended sick pay for 4, then another 2, weeks.

DH That's not what I was getting at.

DH who would you expect to be dealing with RA absence from work

MS Her line manager

DH Kim T. Would you know c communication between KimT and RA

MS no

Exit MS

They have all gone off to bash their heads against brick walls

For the PP asking why this witness is being questioned rather than MW, how could ERCC possibly have put MW on the stand and risked the Wizard of Oz-style curtain being pulled back?

It is completely incomprehensible that a rape crisis centre doesn't centre the users.

I would love some big matronly figure to go into ERCC and clap and shoo MW out.

Same. It's horrifying.

They do not care about traumatised women. We have to start again. Build the lot all over again. All because some weak people would not do their jobs.

Thank fuck for brave women like NC, RA, Jo Phoenix, Allison Bailey, Rachael Meade, Amy Hamm, Sal Grover, Sonia Appleby and all the others who are willing to go through this absolute shit show in order to prove that sex is a material reality.

That we still need "Courage calls to courage everywhere and its voice cannot be denied" is horrifying.

I haven't read the afternoon yet. The witness in the later part of the morning did a good job of demonstrating that she (& by extension the centre) are bigoted towards anyone with gender critical beliefs. Perhaps other beliefs too. The place is run by a bunch of bigots. I hope the judgmentn says so.

I don't know if it will, but I hope it also makes clear that having such a narrow minded approach has bad implications for service users as well as employees.

I'm sure it's gone really badly for the defence.

A bit like early episodes of Call the Midwife when a progressive husband would want to be at the birth, only to be firmly removed by a brisk nun.

The trustees here seem to be waaaayy too close to the day to day. They have no objectivity and as a result really don't know how to cover their own arses. Ultimately, this shit show lies at the feet of the board. Having a bunch of awe struck babes in arms is just not sensible.