Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

Does the bobble hat one have a book? you may be getting mixed up with our other lawyer who likes to monitor us

Snap that’s what I realised when catching up on this mornings evidence.

OMG. Only the most fucking cold-hearted careerist would take in a job at a rape crisis centre with this callous disregard for their service users.

I am so angry and I have thoroughly appreciated those moments when the utterly magnificent NC let's the steel show beneath the velvet. I read yesterday's closing as a beautiful crescendo of wrath. Because by golly but she's furious. This is an open and shut tribunal surely.

And I agree at this point ERCC could shit on the floor and it wouldn't make their case more embarrassing or worse.

Roz, if you read this I am so sorry for what you've gone through.

If it was JKR who has funded this, she's certainly got her money's worth!😂

I think we all know why MW considers it 'fun' to speak to traumatised service users.

I've only been involved in a few (commercial) legal cases, but I am feeling sorry for DH. He's presumably just meeting with his client to review the morning.

It's going to be a bit tricky for Comic Relief and the Big Lottery to continue to fund ERCC after this.

I think the real sticking point is not the money (within reason) but the clear and open apology that ERCC would have had to make. Anything that would satisfy RA would have seen ERCC incur the fury of unhinged activists.

Just popping this down, will ask a q about this aspect in a mo...

My mind is blown by this exchange. Even India Willoughby must be thinking 'these people are nuts'.

Something that occurred to me:

MW not a witness as not involved in the investigation.

MW was removed from the investigation (see my nested quote)

Which was it?

To be fair, MW didn't say it was fun to speak to survivors, but that MW likes to cook for people to keep the work environment fun. I think we have to be clear and take the high path if we don't want monitors getting comments removed

MR said that Nico couldn't be a witness because she had left the company, to which NC said they could have asked her and paid her a day rate. She towed the line on MW not being involved, which begs the question that it you truly believe that why not put MW on the stand, as you know all MW can say is 'I'm not aware I wasn't involved.'

The fact MW isn't being cross examined when the claimant had specifically stated they thought they should be shows that the Respondent is not being truthful. To me, at least.

How can one be removed from an investigation one was not involved in?

(My quote was not nested, I need more coffee!)

Fair enough, my mistake.

I hope she's sat on the sofa in her pj's with a glass of wine having a whale of a time watching shit go down 🤣

Not sure what your point is here. I've had to give evidence and because I don't have a religion I have to affirm. Thats all there is to it.

Normally lunch is 1300 - 1400. NC was say8bg she could carry on until 1330 to finish the witness before lunch.

I am NOT watching that awards show, it would be days long. 😂

Did anyone read

NC MW treats prospect of qs and dissent re ercc trans incl policy as source of trauma.

And think MW ought to reframe that trauma?

I think this is a reference to the affirmation only model of GI "care"

Expanded their portfolio? How erm inventive.
Is it pro boner?

Muses. Is there a lawyerish version of Only Fans?

I think my jaw dropping moment from this (and it is one of many contenders) is the current witness saying she didn't know AB's medical history so couldn't say whether AB would be more likely to get breast or prostate cancer

IF it was funded by JKR then I cannot imagine how wide the smile on her face must be. Fair play to her, she puts her money where her mouth is, and I'm glad that she has very very deep pockets. JKR also has a huge amount of nouse about her. The decision to keep creative control over Harry Potter has been proven to be very wise. She is very careful and thoughtful in what she says. I am so glad that with all the trouble she has been through she is using her resources to help other women. She is making such a difference for good. I admire her character greatly.
Ohh and talking of Harry Potter it was the top selling video game of 2023 by money earned, selling 22 million copies. That's more resources for JKR to put to good use.

I did like the response from MS that it had been a very attentive intern, so they had made the typo and then realised they needed to explain how that could affect the outcome, without realising that they had simply made a typo when writing gross.

It all makes sense!

It was just a joke! I do understand the difference