Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

Or maybe a previous witness answering the question that if the male lawyer said he was now a woman and changed nothing else other that stating that would he be a woman - witness answered in a small voice 'Yes'. So deep in the shit they can't see a way out

OMG. Only the most fucking cold-hearted careerist would take in a job at a rape crisis centre with this callous disregard for their service users.

This.

Thank you!

That seemed to work

Sorry if this has been touched on but I read somewhere about SU's asking about having a woman counsellor. Was the witness saying that if a SU asks for a woman counsellor they could potentially get a TW as that was ERCC policy, but if they specified a female counsellor ERCC would provide a female?

I have accessed both 1:1 and group therapy at an english rape crisis centre and now I am wondering if policy can potentially mislead service users dependent on language? It's so shit as a survivor of rape that you not only have to deal with being re traumatised by the criminal justice system but now potentially the support services that are court ordered to support you (I had to have an ISVA, provided by Rape Crisis). If there are humans in those organisations who still have a penis I wouldn't want them anywhere near me.

Sorry mixed the two up.

I had a thought. If there's a helpline, do they have TW volunteers? Imagine calling for help and there's a man's voice on the phone. So many women would just put the phone down at this point.

I was a witness 18 months after I left an organisation - to be fair the ET was delayed 18 months due to Covid

I don’t even think it went that far. The repeated line was that no men work at ERCC so of course an SU wouldn’t be provided with a male (even if it was MW) as no men work there….

This tweet made me laugh ( horrifying tho it is )
https://twitter.com/crit_gen/status/1750121529524818340?s=19

Was the witness saying that if a SU asks for a woman counsellor they could potentially get a TW as that was ERCC policy, but if they specified a female counsellor ERCC would provide a female?

At no point have any of the witnesses suggested that it would be possible to guarantee a biologically female counsellor at ERCC. They've hidden behind language and Orwellian newspeak. They said it was possible to request another staff member if you had any issues with the one you were assigned.

ERCCs policy us that you can request the gender identity but not the sex of someone.

If you specifically said you mean biological sex when requesting a female/woman, they would give advice on where else you could get help, because they cannot disclose the sex of their staff.

It is horrifying. I hadn't quite appreciated it until I watched the tribunal feed, rather than following through twitter.

But the way the witness keeps parroting MW is a woman. ERCC doesn't amply men. MW is a woman. Is pretty disturbing. It's obviously untrue, and I just don't understand how they speak like that in front of a judge.

They've also made clear that if a service user pushed the "biological sex" line they'd be told to go elsewhere. With the existence of Beira's Place being withheld from them.

they would give advice on where else you could get help

Not when it would involve referring to the only female only service in Edinburgh, because they don't consider them a proper place to refer on to.

By insisting MW is a woman, they're lying under oath.

It's legally false and scientifically false that Wadhwa is a woman, let alone "female" or "not male". The huffing and pearl clutching by the ERCC witnesses notwithstanding.

Why do they do it? MW is obvs. doing it for validation, but why do all the handmaidens do it?

@crumpet @Ereshkigalangcleg

That is massively upsetting. So you can't trust them as an organisation as they are lying about the biological status of their staff basically. To people who have been at the sharp end of a biology that has compromised their safety, over ridden their consent and violated them. The issue about women and their consent being ignored is so deep rooted that they aren't even given the chance to consent to exposure to a counsellor anymore

No, exactly @Rangelife

I feel as you do.

I still have the photos on my tablet somewhere.
Blghhh

It would be the Scottish Government who are hand in glove with TRAs and demand organisations are ‘trans inclusive’ to get funding. Maggie Chapman was COO of ERCC and is now a Green MSP in the Scottish Government (list MSP, 94% of region voted against greens, name not on any ballot). She is also currently pushing for parents to be imprisoned if they try to limit TRA indoctrination and medical harm if their children.

"finish the witness" 😂

Maggie Chapman was COO of ERCC when MW was appointed

😀

ROAR at "you can stop now Ben, he's dead" 😂