Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

If the closing submissions will be in writing will we, as members of the public, be able to see them before the decision is handed down by the tribunal? I'd imagine that NC or RA could choose to put those for RA on the Internet, if that's what they wanted.

NC [asks MS to read email from RA]

Wow, that'll mess up Lorca's writings, and other beautiful literature if someone gets their mitts on it.

Edited to add that my Spanish studies would have been so much easier had I been allowed to bung an e on the end of everything. Although my head is still exploding at the implications of the e.

Just did a quick count and I make it just over 100 people observing (incl tribunal accounts)

It's flat earth LarkLane. Drain the landscape of any interesting contours. Make it the same boring level plain everywhere.

I wonder how many people usually observe these tribunals, and whether the clerk will tell the judge?

Some recognisable names on there too. Bet some of the initials include the billionaires and journalists.

What is she reading? War and Peace.

They're lying. The service user turned away by email for using whether there were any women only groups was not aware of that ERCC are TWAW or the existence of Beira's Place. She only became aware of Beira'a Place through other means.

When Roz sent that email, I don't think in a 1000 years she would have guessed it would end in a discussion in court about ABs non-existent prostate.

Is this one of the hate folder emails?

Many thanks. I have not been following but from your listing of the group opposing her with one barrister it seems that CEO has huge
management support. Let’s hope the arguments from Roz are more powerful and viewed as such by the tribunal.

Prostates seem to be having a moment, currently.

Witness just confirmed that email and ones like it filed in folder called hate

criticising the podcast and CEO is hateful

BOOM

NC trying to get MS to admit that you can have something that's objectively fair that is in conflict with the policies of ERCC. That in some circumstances the policies of ERCC will be unfair.

Is there anything hateful about it?

I don't know i think there is a misunderstanding of the trans ?? Something

Most Spanish and Latin American people would refer to a male "non binary" person as "no binario" and a female as "no binaria" if using non binary on its own as an adjective. Because gender is important in Romance languages.

What most seem to do to get around this is link it to a noun, which is already gendered. So a "persona no binaria" is feminine gendered, and "genero no binario" is masculine.

Do u think that email should be filed under hate emails?

Don't know, think there is a misunderstanding of trans umbrella

is hateful

Nc -
email from a woman utterly devastated that female rape support staff not a option

this any other meails like it filed in s filder "hate emails"

what's hateful about it?
is there anything hateful about it

witness - they are criticizing what was said on the podcast not the the CEO
winess getting quite confused

NC: is there anything hateful about that email?
Witness: I don't know. I think there is a misunderstanding of transgender and the umbrella.
NC: is there anything hateful about it?
Witness: yes, because they are criticising the podcast and the CEO. Criticising the rape crisis centre. Not having an understanding of the trans identity

I think this witness is equating criticism to hate at this point

NC Do you agree nothing surprising c strength of writer's feelings

MS What do you mean

NC email expresses v strong feelings c what MW said and did at ercc. Not surprising. Anything in there unfair to MW or to org

MS This is someone processing their emotions and thoughts

NC [reads - it's a woman talking about her reactions to rape, inc how can you say someone who doesn't want to talk to male about her rape is a bigot?] Fair approach to ercc policy

MS this is her way of understanding --- I don't know what you mean

NC are you aware emails like this were filed under hate

MS y

NC should this have been filed in folder called hate emails. Anything hateful?

MS don't know. There is a misunderstanding c trans.

NC Anything hateful

MS yes cos criticising the rape crisis centre and the CEO

witness is deep water here

NC: so you are telling the tribunal that you're comfrotable , as the consicence of the org, that you feel comf about that being filed in a folder called Hate emails?
Witness: I'd have to udnerstand what they mean by hate, need to look more into it [longer answer, I'm not quick enough]

I feel quite sorry for the ERCC lawyer.

He must be biting his Tonge to have to sit and listen to this witness fuck it all up