Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

Do u feel comfortable with this filed under hate emails

I need to look more into it

before my time

Witnessn is doing a wonderful job of showingn up the bigotry of the ercc

Had to take a phone call - is this the email that was shown to KM yesterday, objecting to MW's appointment?

NC - filing these emails in a folder called "hate emails" was expression contempt for the writers?

Thank God back at 11.55

NC are you uncomfortable c being filed as hate emails

MS would have to understand what they mean by hate. It's important to read and consider them. I would hope they were. This was before my time.

NC Filing in folder called hate was an expression of contempt for the writers.

MS don't understand

NC explains the definition of the word contempt

MS I don't think so

[what was it someone up thread said about there may be a reason this particular person has been put up]

Break time.

Has ERCC already presented their defense case? or does it come after RA/NC presenting their evidence?

I'd have cracked if I were the witness and had to keep parroting the party line. She must realise how utterly stupid she sounds.

I feel sick now. The evil of wilful stupidity

There will be closing submissions lechiffre55. But they might be in written form at some point in the future. Apparently there might be an oral submission component too but I'm not sure about that.

Does anyone know how we could ask for a government enquiry into the running of ERCC? This evidence seems damning and to be causing harm to traumatised women.

Does she really understand what she's saying?

MS No . Why. If su comes into centre they are looking for support, don't want to engage in political debate about sex and gender

That's not what MW says, is it?

'Mridul Wadhwa, a transgender woman, said people would not truly recover unless they addressed their “unacceptable beliefs” because “therapy is political”.
She said: “We will work with you... but please expect to be challenged on your prejudices.'

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19509343.outcry-plan-educate-bigoted-rape-survivors-trans-rights/

slowly working through the thread.
If anyone (outside of corporate identity reasons, which i'm ok with) told me which font to use? I would use one that is a bit similar but not quite. As for the rest, as long as their requested accommodations of my mic/camera use didn't inconvenience me, maybe. Most likely i'd tell my boss i can't work with them and let my boss choose which of us to keep or move to another team.

I'm not listening in so just going by X narrative & here, but NC's skilful full circle cross examination here is just masterful. She started off establishing that the board is the 'conscience' of the org, and brought this full circle to asking her, as part of the org's 'conscience' is she ok calling rape victims hateful for their genuine concerns over a man running a RCS - one who told staff to tell women that no men work there.

The morals of ERCC are in the gutter. Shame on them.

Can't you adjust the font/size/format you see in your email display at your own end anyway? Thus dealing with your own accessibility requirements whilst avoiding inconveniencing others?

I think the witness may have mentioned this at the end of the exchange? But it was not clear because of her accent - so hard to hear the actual phoneme she said.

And they seem to think that just saying that they are trans inclusive on their website makes it all ok!

It's amazing.

A female victim of a violent rape can't have guaranteed female support from ERCC.
but
The male CEO of ERCC can have the whole organisation to validate his gender identity. Anyone who doesn't play along is out.

I'm afraid that ERCC is running pretty much the way the Scottish govt wanted it to run. The Scottish govt also thinks TWAW (see self-id) and needs to rethink just as much as ERCC. I do hope this case and any surrounding publicity will help to re-focus their thoughts.

This is the problem, if you don't capitulate to the new way of thinking 100% and show even a flicker of dissent you are tarred and feathered and cast out into the wilderness.

I think so, I think it's the one with a very distressed rape victim and not being able to sleep next to her husband.

Women who have been raped are really at the bottom of the priority list at this place. It's so sad, and at the same time, anger inducing.

NC is brilliant. Just imagine if she and BC were a team.

Why can't ERCC be both trans inclusive AND meet the needs of female rape victims?
Treat trans staff equally, respect their identites etc...
If a rape victim asks for female support staff provide female support staff.
Ask victims "Are you ok being supported by a trans woman?"
If they say no give them female support staff.
If they say yes then trans women can support.
No conflict........