Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

Ooh she just admitted a man DOES work at the centre!!!!!

BURN HER HERETIC

Goodness me, the witness has agreed that, for a person who understands 'man' and 'woman' to refer to a person's biological sex, then yes, for that person, it is not true that ERCC doesn't employ any men.

Finally an admission that there is a man working there

NC Can you think of a reason that a rape victim might think the sex of their sw is important

MS y

NC esp that vast majority of sex offences by males

MS y

She said the truth out loud!

Boom!

Witness has just said (sort of to herself) 'how do you explain this'. It's what we're all thinking.

If NC ever needs anything - a cuddle, a pint, a kidney - I'll be willing.

Witness goes Back to roz email behaviour hurt and humiliated AB

She's now explaining Roz's thinking. Incorrectly. And claiming that Roz is the one who is confused.

I think NC has broken through the denial shell of this witness. She is having to use words not mantras now.

back to evasion

Just catching up.

NC will AB be more likely suffer prostate cancer or breast cancer.

Witness I don't know ABs medical history

AB would be more likely to have breast cancer and is not likely to have a prostate?

Yes <giggle> No comment.

NC: Is AB more likely to suffer breast cancer or prostate cancer.

MS: wibble.

NC: AB doesn't have a prostate.

MS: No comment. ... Some people don't have prostates.

NC - its very unlikely AB will suffer prostate cancer because AB doesn't have a prostate do they?

God that was painful

Is A B more likely to suffer breast cancer or prostate cancer?

AB is not a woman

You would think that a large company like Worknest would have checks on an apprentice letter giving legal advice before it was sent out. It would be insane not to do so.

I'd love to see the request for advice to Worknest and what was actually said to them initially.

CAN I ASK YOU WHAT SPANISH FOR NON BINARY IS?
non binaria.
And is there an "o" ending?
No and waffle

I think that's incorrect, though my Spanish is limited to dos cerveza por favor

Asking what is non binary in Spanish?

Shonah Dillon's PhD comes to mind. (And then coffee time is over.)

The research is titled:

‘#TERF/Bigot/Transphobe’ – ‘We found the witch, burn her!’ A contextual constructionist account of the silencing of feminist discourse on the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004, and the policy capture of transgender ideology, focusing on the potential impacts and consequences for female-only spaces for victims of male violence.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4287881-Congratulations-Shonagh-Dillon-for-Defending-Your-PhD-TERF-Bigot-Transphobe-We-found-the-witch-burn-her?reply=108769551

NC victims may have been made fearful of men by their experiences

MS y

NC RA heard that can't tell victims sex of sw cos no men work at centre

MS I understand how RA was confused. Saying to RA no men work at ercc and her understanding of nb. There is a difference between RA's understanding and the fact that she was given an instruction but still hurt and humiliated AB by contacting her.

NC Are you saying AB didn't have a sex?

MS AB id as nb and our trans inclusive policy is that nb don't adhere to the binary

NC Is Ab a person who might be at risk of prostate or breast cancer

MS Don't know AB's medical history, but more likely breast

NC Can't be prostate cos AB doesn't have one

MS [fudges that - no real answer]