Another GC Employment Tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #4

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gender Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM or KT: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22-23 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Miren Sagues (MS): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katie Horburgh (KH): 24 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2
Thread #3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4990903-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-3

Rape Crisis Scotland's involvement in the recent SPS policy review -

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2024/01/10/was-the-scottish-prison-service-transgender-prisoner-policy-a-done-deal/

No apology ever given

Board not given appeal outcome letter

NC [reading from RA grievance version she sent in with appeal] Elaine felt lang describing RA as transphobic not helpful or warranted and recommended ercc apologise to RA for use of lang

MS Yes, but she doesn't say any evidence that I said she was transphobic

NC. No, not to do with you. Just reading for you to agree with Elaine.

NC Are you aware ercc never apologised.

MS Didn't know of her recommendations. Didn't read the appeal outcome until this tribunal

NC Board wasn't given copy of appeal outcome?

MS no

God this is such a symbolic org.

Oops shambolic!!

God this is tortuous

Witness Meeting next week to start learning

Christ!

This feels like MS throwing herself under the bus to save ERCC. Particularly to save MW. It's very sad to watch.

@Boiledbeetle

shambolic?

Witness: I tried to keep both processes separate

NC when it had all finished, did you look at the grievance appeal outcome

MS it hadn't all finished. We were going to tribunal. We are going to meet next week to discuss

NC But it won't be finished then either, cos you won't have the tribunal decision

Bugger! I've edited it! Totally changed the meaning

@Boiledbeetle
Nah I think you may have hit another good note with symbolic. This org is symbolic of how deeply orgs ( especially publicly funded ) are entrenched in gender woowoo even when it ends up going legal.

Why was no apology given?

Doesn't know

NC Do you say one perspective is right and the other is wrong.

NC Ercc stance that TWAW, is right

Coffee break. Just leaving this here.

Lifton outlines the "Eight Criteria for Thought Reform":

1. Milieu Control. The group or its leaders controls information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
2. Mystical Manipulation. The group manipulates experiences that appear spontaneous to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows a reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. Coincidences and happenstance oddities are interpreted as omens or prophecies.
3. Demand for Purity. The group constantly exhorts members to view the world as black and white, conform to the group ideology, and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
4. Confession. The group defines sins that members should confess either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; the leaders discuss and exploit members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults".
5. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
6. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
7. Doctrine over person. Members' personal experiences are subordinate to the sacred science; members must deny or reinterpret any contrary experiences to fit the group ideology.
8. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious, and must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism

It looks like the transphobia accusation was dismissed but only on a surface level and it continued to be present in ERCC's thinking throughout the rest of the processes.

Witness Panel decided they weren't going to be taking about her beliefs or the transphobic behaviours. Just her behaviour

This witness couldn't hide her contempt for Roz then, you could hear it in her voice

I thought “symbolic” was an excellent word to use! 😂

with public money.

Not much ROI, is there? If my taxes is intended to be spent to support raped women but it's aurally supporting Maggie Chapman's own aims and objectives, well, I'm not happy about that.

This whole thing of "an apprentice made an admin error" is such an obvious blatant lie, it's embarassing.

They are rather symbolic of the way these beliefs turn previously decent organisations into shambolic organisations!

How many fingers. This person is in a cult.

We don't have men working at ERCC cos TWAW

Witness laughing incredulously twaw we don't have any men working at the centre

NC if your employer gives you an instruction that makes no sense you should question/push back or assume you can't understand if instruction seems to you to be immoral.

MS y

NC instruction seems to be can't tell su sex of su but can tell them no men working at centre

MS y

NC But MW works at centre, so for anyone who understands words man and woman as being about a person's physical sex, a man does work at the centre

MS yes