Another GC employment tribunal. Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #2

[nauticant]

Claiming constructive dismissal for GC beliefs.

ERCC CEO is a well known transwoman know for controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There was live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
R or ERCC: the Respondent, Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024
[more to follow]

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis

NC: sex realist / gi belief. Some people think tw = men / tm= women. Humans are mammals and every individual is either male or female. And those people think that being fe/male is to do with the kind of body organised to father/bear children and not what you wear/behave like. And those people believe fact of your sex can't change all your life, even if you wish you could change sex. And those people think that your physical sex matters not your gi. RA prefers the expression sex realist.
Am I right that you are not going to feel able to say you share those beliefs.

KT You're right

NC MW said if you are transphobic, if you don't recognise people for what they are, you are also racist, etc

KT what I see there is what her experience is, expressing her experience

NC More than that. MW is saying if you don't recognise people for what they say they are that's transphobia

Loong pause

Pause still ongoing

KM is currently showing, in a painful way, that she doesn't actually know what she thinks. Because she's never examined her views.

Looong pause from witness!😂

Saying transwomen are men is transphobic? Yes.

Agreed that to say TW are men IS transphobic

KT I suppose what I see is, if you are denying transpeople's reality that can be transphobic

NC Is saying tw=men and tm=women transphobic?

KT yes

NC cos you're not recognising their reality

KT yes

NC is basically trying to get her to admit that gender critical bliefs aren't valid at ERCC

What about denying fucking biological reality? That is insanely offensive and hateful to a lot of rape survivors.

If saying TW are male is transphobic saying they're not is reality-phobic and disqualifies you from any job where biological reality is important (i.e. most jobs).

NC: You're not a vehement believer are you?

KM is now struggling with knowing she can't answer that frankly.

You didn't think the claimant was transphobic? No

I think she might have done that.

NC so at ercc you have to be a vehement believer in that belief system or you have to keep quiet and submit.

KT don't agree

NC you're not a vehement believer are you

KT don't know what you mean by that

NC you didn't and don't think RA is transphobic.

KT no. She had different beliefs but was content and able to work within our procedures.

Doesn't agree clients have the right to know the biological sex of staff!!!

Why do you advertise jobs under schedule 9

oooh she's saying duty to staff is more important than duty to service users!

Taxpayers money well spent?

What are you saying to service users by advertising jobs under schedule 9?

NC: Why do you advertise jobs under schedule 9 of the EA?

We no longer say we only employ women

KT I don't think su have right to know the bio sex of our staff workers. Duty c sensitive info.

NC why do you advertise jobs under schedule ix of eq act

KT cos we only employ women

NC even if you think that's a true statement, which RA doesn't, what does advertising jobs under schedule ix tell women

KT now, we have nb staff and we feel they can continue role and are employed under the exemption

GI doesn't tolerate dissent, does it?

Disagree

Witness objects to someone calling MW a man

KT we don't have a culture in our org in telling people what they have to think. But i would object to someone calling MW a man

NC we don't have to make it personal. You knew RA thought TWANW.

KT while she was employed with us I wasn't aware of full extent of her beliefs.

NC you weren't aware of the full extent of her heresy [!]

NC even if you think that's a true statement, which RA doesn't, what does advertising jobs under schedule ix tell women

KT now, we have nb staff and we feel they can continue role and are employed under the exemption

So then the "nb staff" are having their cake and eating it a bit, aren't they?

Is there a link to observe proceedings live please.