Trans Ideology - a real life debate

[Forester1]

So something that is far too rare - a proper debate

For me positions can be summarised as:

Mark Glenening - free speech paramount - and shouldnt have compelled speech
Helen Joyce - Single sex spaces are needed - males need to keep out - however they identify
Freda Wallace - Me, me, me, my sex life, me
Peter Tatchell - Akin to fight for gay rights, black rights. I don’t see any issues. Be kind.

Wasn't Maya sat in front of Fred, his constant leg crossing was aimed I think at Maya and Akua Reindorf who were sat together? Nothing Fred does surprises me frankly.
I'm more fascinated by Tatchell .. He knows, he knows what Fred is, he knows it's all bollocks (literally and figuratively) and he's found himself defending the irrational and indefensible. I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't such an arse to women.
And Helen Joyce is my idol. Imagine having to go to the ladies at the event and Wallace being in there. Jesus.

Unfortunately for the Trans Community, it doesn’t seem to matter much which Transgender speaker shows up to these events.

Grace Lavery challenged Helen Joyce to a debate and then backed out (and while I find Grace odious, I will happily admit that Grace’s intellect is far greater than Freda’s) however, Grace’s appearance on the Heterodorx podcast showed that Grace is as mad as the very same box of frogs as Freda is.

The public statements made by any number of transgender writers shows them to be similarly out of touch with reality (Andrea Long Chu, Shon Faye, Jane Fae, Munroe Bergdorf, Juno Dawson et al all seem think that their sexual interests and conquests are somehow intrinsic to their inner womanhood).

Whereas all the sensible, non sex-obsessed transgender people seem to lean towards the terfy side (Corinna Cohn, Miranda Yardley, Seven Hex et al).

"Pipe down cunt." Well that's obviously coming from a great intellect, isn't it? I'm fully convinced now of Freda's superiority of argument.

Unfortunately this is what you get when you don't differentiate between people with actual, honest-to-goodness gender dysmorphia and the crew for a jet to Malaga.

And unfortunately for the genuine trans people, this is who represent you now. Be prepared for all the gains you have made over the last 20 years to vanish like tears in the rain.

Too bad it cut off early, Fred was an absolute car crash and seems to live in a porn soaked fug instead of reality, which I think says a lot about men who champion this ideology and say men can be women. He also obviously cannot handle the fact that most people and certainly women will indeed read him and other transwomen as male and do not want him in their single sex spaces, he has to keep telling himself mostly that all these complaints are a mean plot against him and that everybody sees him as a woman in real life, like I said he exists in a porn and perhaps alcohol soaked fug.

Also that comment that Helen and the movement to protect women's rights and spaces is misogynistic because it "prevents men from expressing themselves"? Did I hear that right? Does he even know what that word means?

I think we should hear more of him, he makes our case against himself rather well😂

Peter's arguments were woolly nonsense that and his disregard for women's concerns where thinly veiled by his weedy "do-gooder" sentiments that bore no relation to the argument at hand, I'd have liked to hear him respond to the questions he received at the end about race.

Helen was fantastic as always!

https://twitter.com/JohnCarameI/status/1717680437374366206?s=19

Erm...someone had put together all the clips of wine being consumed by one panel member

I think Fred's performance is a genuine demonstration of why no debate has been an absolute disaster for the trans perspective. They have spoken only to and among themselves, in perfect agreement at all times, boxing at shadows that they've created, completely misrepresenting what women are saying and why. In the end, that comes down to Drunky Fred flashing his lady bollocks at women while shouting and swearing like a tramp behind Tesco. But the fact is, that they've failed to develop any meaningful arguments for their position at all that could compel agreement from the wider public and the ones who might be able to behave in a dignified and appropriate manner are aware of that, and that their best strategy continues to be secret lobbying.

Oh my (quite literally) giddy aunt!

To be fair, I saw Freda as quite an attractive woman and I probably would not have noticed she was transgender. But her attire and demeanor wasn't appropriate for the event.

Haven't watched the original video but Freda appears to be the only one with wine. Why? Did he bring it with him? Did all the panel get offered wine and only he accepted? Did he demand it, diva-like?

Also by the looks of the video @Boiledbeetle posted he must have refilled the glass at least once but we don't see it.

Oops, just watched it again and see he did refill.

nope.

have now heard Freda's opening salvo. It makes no sense at all. And how can anyone say "sex matters" doesn't benefit women?

I think this may explain why there's a disconnect between trans women who think they pass and what women really notice. Because to me, Fred is an obvious man, a hulk of man, massive frame, massive hands, massive feet, loud, obnoxious, sex and self obsessed. Even if he had dressed without showing his genitals, it would have been completely obvious to me.

Maaaaaate

Yeah, there's not a woman alive who wouldn't see Wallace as a sexually aggressive man, getting more pissed with each incoherent comment.

But, as we have often noticed, women are far more in tune with the 6500 genetic differences between males and females. They've had to be.

What Alison said!

Hmm...

Exactly.

I honestly cannot think of a single transactivist who would have any credibility in even a very mild and short public debate.

We would have seen them.

God knows, the ideology isn't short of men who like to talk about it.

There's a reason they can't do it in public.

I don’t mean to be rude here, but the fact you cannot read Freda as male is likely a combo of autism*, being male yourself and being blinded by belief.

To women, Freda looks like a Les Dawson character.

*Dr Az Hakeem has said that of his MtF post-transition support group attendees, those who were least likely to regret transition were those with the most autistic traits, because for them, wearing a blouse and having a
lady name made them indistinguishable from actual women. Plus they didn’t pick up on the social cues of women wordlessly ‘clocking’ them.

Hmm, and women innately know how to discern someone close to passing. Yet you don't?...

I'm now as far as Tatchell's opening statement. And i am all agog. This is a panel talking about women's sex based rights. 3 men and 1 woman. Where are trans men's voices in all this?

You see a woman.

OK!

@AlisonDonut

Sorry - it wasn't right of me to comment on Freda's appearance like that. To be fair I was responding to other posters who claimed she looked unfeminine.

He looked and behaved exactly like a man, an AGP.

Wearing fishnets with a bollock hanging out is not feminine.

Jesus. That's a sentence I never thought I'd write.