Trans Ideology - a real life debate

[Forester1]

So something that is far too rare - a proper debate

For me positions can be summarised as:

Mark Glenening - free speech paramount - and shouldnt have compelled speech
Helen Joyce - Single sex spaces are needed - males need to keep out - however they identify
Freda Wallace - Me, me, me, my sex life, me
Peter Tatchell - Akin to fight for gay rights, black rights. I don’t see any issues. Be kind.

I'm sorry to have missed this - forgot to note the date.

Was interested because of earlier thread where not everyone was sure whether it was a wind up. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4916868-where-to-get-tickets-for-this-event

I see the web link nows has the whole event (1hr 13mins?) plus an auto generated transcript (just mentioning that as I didn't know you could do that.

"Helens movement is misogynistic because it makes men ashamed of who they are"

Ah, now I get it. Thanks, Freda. That comment really helps.

I think this was the paper published earlier in the year that prompted this debate https://iea.org.uk/media/dont-outlaw-gender-critical-views-says-new-paper/

What happened at the end? We've a chunk missing and interesting questions have gone unanswered.

This was, well, I'm not sure what to say. Helen was her usual brilliant, clear and objective self. Fred was fucking hilarious whilst getting more and more pissed. Peter, I almost feel sorry for the bloke at this point and don't understand his motivation. The other chap was a decent free speech advocate. It's worth a watch but you certainly won't learn anything new from it.

Er, sorry, I did a genderslip and forgot to change out of it.

So I won't be deadnaming you If I call you Arabella then?I

Freda has announced today that Freda is no longer employed by the nhs! Apparently we will be getting more of this sort of thing in the future from Freda!

Sorry Arthur....but....we can tell.

And that's a bookmark!

Left or pushed?

Freda and Peter are not doing well so far and I'm 45 mins in

Oh thanks for this. I'm stuck in an hotel room and was planning on a bit of Kindle and an early night. This is comedy gold.

Freda is incapable of debate without spouting freda's very predudiced views of what freda thinks women who are gender critical think they are trying to achieve. It's just an excuse to spout Freda's hated of sex matters.

Well, I do look forward to hearing lots more of this type of debate. The chair did pretty well keeping it all moving forward and it's excellent to hear everyone make their points. Or wibbles, or whatever it was Freda was making.

Well i'm finished, i'm not that clever and I was working while listening, but that was insanely funny, I really disliked Tatchell before watching this, now I think he is just a clueless cretin, Fred fishnets is an absolute joy isn't he😂. The other guy had loads to say at the start then he went quite quiet and was just done with life by the end. Helen Joyce was the star of the show for me, poised, factual and kept her cool, what a role model she is for women everywhere! The audience questions and reactions were great! Just a shame we didn't get to see the last questions answered.

We need more Freda. Preferably without Peter Tatchell trying to reign Freda in.

So illuminating.

They have tried to stop Peter. Only they are very short of ANYONE to defend them on the record in the UK. Plenty of people will take trans money virtually no-one will step up to say anything in their defence because they don't actually have real arguments and also I suspect a lot of them are just following the crowd rather than deeply being invested. Hence it is the same faces on the media Peter, Robin, Willoughby, Wallace all making tired arguments and often making our side look good.

Many of them think #nodebate is still going to fly. It isn't 2017 any more, guys.

I must be an oldie because I remember Jane Fae being the TW regular on these sorts of panels and that really did not end well.

The arguments are so Groundhog Day "I know a TW who is tiny against all the giant female footballers"
Oh rilly? Cool, Super great, but still not a woman!

Peter really thinks a short male is going to be overpowered by a woman?

That was a very strange point.

Peter's been on the receiving end of quite a bit of violence, as far as I recall, and I'm sorry for that.

But surely he has an inkling that men are just a whole different ballgame from women when it comes to upper body strength?

Yes @ArthurbellaScott the football thing did my head in! My partner is a 5foot 3inch male, he could still overpower a much taller woman, as could all other short males!

Helloooooooooo!

You know it’s bad when you start to have sympathy for Peter tatchell. The knock on effect of passing the wine around as the only way to cope with drunken Fred

Ah, seeing as I am now Arthur, I am suddenly qualified to talk authoritatively about football and other such matters. It's why I can use 'ballgame' metaphors and mean big white leathery balls jiggling about in a loose net and all you chaps will know exactly what I'm referring to.

I'm looking forward to everyone taking me far more seriously.

Freda is going to have to up fredas game and tone down the personal insults and attacks and downright lies if this is doing to be fredas only income without an nhs wage to keep the lights on!

Same.

Highlights for me included the Chair's face after the fetish club revelation, and the way in the q&a the mic was directed to 'that man', 'that lady' with nary a thought to misgendering.

Helen, you ARE a saint.